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 Smog referee/Smogging your car: tips & info that may help you.First  1 2 3 4 5 >  Last
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assassin10000
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Northern CA

 Smog referee/Smogging your car: tips & info that may help you. Reply  Edit


A post in fun talk got my mind jump started and thinking about all the stuff I've learned that helps with going to the referee, or just regular smog. So...

Here's some info that may be helpful to you.
(And much of it can be applied to other makes/models)

1. For a SR-5 to GT-S swap, the only year you HAVE to smog referee a swap is the 1984. Because in 1984 the 4a-ge was NOT available in the ae86 in the USA.

2. Any other engine swaps from the 'same' year as the chassis or newer is ok, as long as it's from a car (no truck motors, sorry). It just has to have all the proper smog equipment hooked up and working, and of course pass the sniffer. Then go to the referee and get your label for passing.

3. 1985-87 corolla's just need the motor, correct ecu, and smog equipment for their year model, or newer. Then they will pass just fine without going to the smog referee, as the motors were available that in those years.

4. The smog referee doesn't 'have' to give you part #'s (which he can't do at times because he doesn't have toyota's parts database). For example, the ECU.

The EASIEST way around ECU part # issues is to call or go to a toyota dealer and run your ECU part #. They will be able to print out the 'production' dates/range for that part #, and you can show that to the referee as proof. (I had to do this, my original 85 ECU didn't match the part# the referee had in all-data which is where they confirm it.)

5. If in doubt on whether or not you will pass. Run a PRE-test at ANY smog station before going in, make sure the car will pass. If not, the numbers from your failed PRE-test will help you determine what needs to be fixed before your real smog appointment.

6. If your borderline for HC's or NOX you can try the following:
To reduce NOX retard timing 2 degrees. (as long as HC #'s are low.)
To reduce HC's advance timing 2 degrees. (as long as NOX #'s are low.)

You are allowed +/- 3 degree's of timing from stock.

7. Decarbon/reduce deposits in the engine before going in: Seafoam, GM top engine cleaner, ect. It reduces NOX.

8. Run fresh oil, it will reduce HC's. Especially if it's been in there a while or through VERY hard use.

I have personally seen a fresh oil change DROP HC's by over 100 PPM when I worked at a ford dealership. (This may not happen for you, but it could...)

9. Make sure you have NO vacuum leaks. A vacuum leak from a SINGLE small vacuum hose can raise your NOX enough to fail you. It happened to me, and let me tell you. It sucks when that happens.

10. A good O2 sensor is a major asset, they're not that expensive either. It can help across the board. Stick with NGK or DENSO O2 sensors.. (I bought mine through sparkplugs.com for $33 IIRC)

11. If your CO2 #'s are low (13.x or less), you need a new catalytic converter, the efficiency is too low. Normal range is 14.x-15.x.

At least, this is what the smog referee told me when he saw my numbers dipping into the 13's when I failed on the first run thru. Replaced the cat and it passed just fine.

12. Fresh distributor cap, rotor, and sparkplugs are good. They keep the ignition firing at the right time and if they were really bad, help with HC's a slight misfire can occur with old/worn out parts.

Sparkplug/ignition wires don't need to be replaced unless they are out of the correct 'resistance' range and are breaking down. Or physically broken.

13. Make sure your cooling system is working correctly. If you have an overheating problem, or the engine runs too hot it can cause higher than normal combustion chamber temperatures. Higher combustion chamber temperatures = higher NOX levels, which can cause you to fail.

14. New or Cleaned air filter. (Doesn't do much on AFM [air flap] like the AE86, but on MAF/MAP systems this can help)

15. As per Appendix K. (rev. 5) of the B.A.R. smog law/rules. An 'Oil Catch Can' is 100% smog LEGAL. It is a 'Blowby Oil Seperator' and to be ignored as long as all smog equipment is hooked up and working.

I verified this 8/9/07 while at the smog referee in their manual. The smog guy was cool enough to photocopy the page for me, see here:

If I can think of anything else that can help I will post it up. Feel free to comment, offer your own advice, ect... or ask a question I'm sure we'll let you know if it's an urban myth or untrue.

Andrew



Modified by assassin10000 at 9:08 AM 6/17/2008



OneCamJam




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779 posts [99%]
Bay Area CA

  » Reply  Edit


Awesome post. Thanks for this!

Put in Tech Reference section? With the amount of "help! my car failed smog" posts on here it's a good reference I think.



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wanabeGTShatch




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 Re: (OneCamJam) » Reply  Edit


good job very usefull



"It doesnt matter if it runs...It's gonna be fast when it does!"
Max_Misawa


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30794 posts [99%]
San Jose CA

  » Reply  Edit


you forgot to put use a new air filter
that will also help out quite a bit

Max



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ae82hybrid




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Okay how about putting a smallport into an ae82, would you have to have it refereed then? Or would you not have to since its still a 4AGE. I have a complete smallport swap in my ae82, im running the wiring harness, all smog equiptment and smallport ECU from a ae92 and I just wanted to know if I still would have to get it BARed for the car to be legal with that engine in it if I do ever get pulled over. But I dont think the cops would even know the difference. Who knows, they might be one of those jerk cops who thinks that its a swap like all hondas and give me a ref ticket. I just want to be on the safe side, just in case.



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assassin10000
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Northern CA

 Re: (ae82hybrid) » Reply  Edit


Small port wasn't available for that car... it'd have to be ref'd to be 100% legal if using a smallport intake manifold/ecu.

You can use newer engine blocks with older manifolds/electronics and still be legal.

Andrew

Max_Misawa


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  » Reply  Edit


yea you could put a redtop into your car
just have to have the right elcetronics and get it to pas smog
both are PRE OBD1 so it should be a breeze

Max



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ae82hybrid




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  » Reply  Edit


I got my setup to pass smog back in july, it passed easily with a cat.



"AE Squad'
assassin10000
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4959 posts [100%]
Northern CA

 Re: (ae82hybrid) » Reply  Edit


Pic up, added air filter to the list.

Andrew

oni.dori
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 Re: (assassin10000) » Reply  Edit


ok, here is an add on question to the previous one. i was thinking about eventually putting an AE92 FWD 4AG in to my AE86. so, would the older RWD model manifold work with it just fine? i was under the impression that they were slightly different designs (the removal of T-VIS and smaller ports). would the FWD intake manifold work, or would it need the RWD manifold?
assassin10000
Teq



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4959 posts [100%]
Northern CA

 Re: (oni.dori) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by oni.dori »
ok, here is an add on question to the previous one. i was thinking about eventually putting an AE92 FWD 4AG in to my AE86. so, would the older RWD model manifold work with it just fine? i was under the impression that they were slightly different designs (the removal of T-VIS and smaller ports). would the FWD intake manifold work, or would it need the RWD manifold?

Either would work. You can 'cut & shut' the FWD manifold to turn it into RWD. Or you can use the RWD manifold with an adapter. As long as the sensors/egr/charcoal cannister/emissions/vacuum lines for the AE92 are on that motor w/the AE92 ecu you are good to go. Just plug any unused vac ports/sensors.

Andrew

realife


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norca ca

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so in regards to the oil catch can, is it passable only with the smog refs?...or does this apply to smog stations too?(test only and smog check)
assassin10000
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Northern CA

 Re: (realife) » Reply  Edit


Catch cans that are hooked up to both the v/c & intake gasket are 100% legal - ref/smogstagtion/ect.

IF you leave one side open to air (via a filter or hose hanging), and plug the intake, then it's illegal.

Andrew

oni.dori
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 Re: (assassin10000) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by assassin10000 »

Either would work. You can 'cut & shut' the FWD manifold to turn it into RWD. Or you can use the RWD manifold with an adapter. As long as the sensors/egr/charcoal cannister/emissions/vacuum lines for the AE92 are on that motor w/the AE92 ecu you are good to go. Just plug any unused vac ports/sensors.

Andrew

and it would be CARB referee acceptable?

realife


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thanks andrew!!
assassin10000
Teq



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Northern CA

 Re: (oni.dori) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by oni.dori »

and it would be CARB referee acceptable?

Uhh..

Quote, originally posted by assassin10000 »

15. As per Appendix K. (rev. 5) of the B.A.R. smog law/rules. An 'Oil Catch Can' is 100% smog LEGAL. It is a 'Blowby Oil Seperator' and to be ignored as long as all smog equipment is hooked up and working.

I verified this 8/9/07 while at the smog referee in their manual.

Andrew

FujiwaraEightSix




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for those doing the 4agze swap...

only USDM MR2 4AGZE will pass, JDM 4AGZE did not have the proper emissions equipment to pass, sorry i know those engines are way nicer too.

Don't worry about FMIC, it'll pass NP...

here's a link to my thread about the gze smog legal journey...

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=14713





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oni.dori
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 Re: (assassin10000) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by assassin10000 »

Uhh..

Andrew

i was referring to using the adapter plate for the RWD manifold on the FWD 4AG.

oni.dori
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 Re: (FujiwaraEightSix) » Reply  Edit


shouldnt it pass as long as you swap over all the appropriate emissions equipment?
ronny
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 Re: (oni.dori) » Reply  Edit


sticky



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assassin10000
Teq



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Northern CA

 Re: (oni.dori) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by oni.dori »

i was referring to using the adapter plate for the RWD manifold on the FWD 4AG.

It 'should' be a non-issue afaik. It does not change or add anything besides a small amount of intake runner. I think they look at it as a 'gasket'. I've never heard of anyone having issues with it.

Quote, originally posted by oni.dori »
shouldnt it pass as long as you swap over all the appropriate emissions equipment?

On the gze's I believe the s/c intake manifold provisions are missing for the emissions equipment on the JDM. It's not just bolt on the appropriete emissions afaik.

Sure you can put a jdm sc12 on the usdm manifold. But it's finding the manifold, egr, ecu, injectors that are hard. Might as well get the full USDM gze setup, probably less time and money to do so.

Andrew

Plex




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Suisun City CA

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But after you show its a smog legal setup and get the riveted piece on the firewall, couldn't you swap the US GZE for a JDM one, since most cops / smog shops wont really look for anything because you already have the passing riveted piece? (forgot the name... sorry)



Summa Cum Laude Graduate, AE86 University Class of '02
assassin10000
Teq



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Northern CA

 Re: (Plex) » Reply  Edit


It's just a sticker. Nothing special.

You could always do that, but if they know what they're talking about.. you could be s.o.l. (and I have run into a cop who was all into his buddies 22r celica... ect. )

Andrew

FujiwaraEightSix




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riveted piece????

I wish! Bar stickers arn't the highest quality decals I have seen, whatever you do don't spray brake cleaner on them! =P

You could swap the USDM GZE for the JDM GZE after you get the BAR label... but I have heard stories of being getting pulled over with BAR labels and still getting sent to the ref "just cause" It's really all up to the officers descretion, how does he know that sticker/swap is legit? The ref will, that's why he'll send you there.

As for the manifold adapter, bigport - small port. The smog tech will probably not even notice. However having a red one might bring some unwanted attention. The main concern isn't that, it's having the vacuum line for the TVIS blocked off, and while it doesn't concern emissions, it is a part of the vacuum line diagram and if you are at a state ref facility you might get bonked on the head for that...

^ however when i got my car smogged at the ref, he didn't even notice the ABV mod so you're probably good to go!





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oni.dori
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 Re: (assassin10000) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by assassin10000 »

It 'should' be a non-issue afaik. It does not change or add anything besides a small amount of intake runner. I think they look at it as a 'gasket'. I've never heard of anyone having issues with it.

On the gze's I believe the s/c intake manifold provisions are missing for the emissions equipment on the JDM. It's not just bolt on the appropriete emissions afaik.

Sure you can put a jdm sc12 on the usdm manifold. But it's finding the manifold, egr, ecu, injectors that are hard. Might as well get the full USDM gze setup, probably less time and money to do so.

Andrew

thanks a lot. thats what i figured, i just wanted a second opinion.

so here is something thats kind of on topic, but kind of off; i heard that Schwarzenegger cut the referee program as part of his whole panic-enduced budget cutting recently. if this is true, OH HAPPY DAY!!!!!!!!! anyone know anything else about that?

realife


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norca ca

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not a good thing at that...no referee, no way to prove your point in court...as in, proof of correction, therefore you're stuck with a 500 dollar fine because of mods...
oni.dori
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 Re: (realife) » Reply  Edit


ok, so i called the department of commerce, they havent shut down the referee program. they have simply suspended operations until the "governator", in all his infinite wisdom, signs the budget so it can take effect. so in essence, they simply arent going to work until then.

now, on to another subject. i have been thinking about this for a while, what about swapping in a fwd 4A-GE out of a 1989-1991 Geo/Chevrolet Prizm, would that work and be CARB accepted (so long as all emissions equipment was accounted for and functional)? what about the manifold, would i have to get it reworked to fit the RWD format? and lastly, would all the other 4A-GE "go fast goodies" (especially the RWD version) parts still fit on this?
mostly i have been cosidering this idea becuase it runs on a MAP sensor, and produces close to somewhere around 140hp out of the box. however, i am looking to still be able to put some more "goodies" on it and make it faster. just curious about the logistics of it, if it has been done, and if anyone has any info on it.

assassin10000
Teq



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Northern CA

 Re: (oni.dori) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by oni.dori »
now, on to another subject. i have been thinking about this for a while, what about swapping in a fwd 4A-GE out of a 1989-1991 Geo/Chevrolet Prizm, would that work and be CARB accepted (so long as all emissions equipment was accounted for and functional)? what about the manifold, would i have to get it reworked to fit the RWD format? and lastly, would all the other 4A-GE "go fast goodies" (especially the RWD version) parts still fit on this?
mostly i have been cosidering this idea becuase it runs on a MAP sensor, and produces close to somewhere around 140hp out of the box. however, i am looking to still be able to put some more "goodies" on it and make it faster. just curious about the logistics of it, if it has been done, and if anyone has any info on it.

Its the same as a smallport motor. Same deal, same install. Just badged as a Geo/GM.

Cut & shut the manifold may not fly with the referee, but it depends on the person there I think... I'm not too sure on this one as I havent done it myself.

Andrew

oni.dori
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 Re: (assassin10000) » Reply  Edit


and you wouldnt be able to use the rwd manifold on it either, would you?
assassin10000
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Northern CA

 Re: (oni.dori) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by oni.dori »
and you wouldnt be able to use the rwd manifold on it either, would you?

No idea.

I don't see why you cant. But I wouldnt want a largeport manifold on a small port motor, the giant ledge/port size difference will prove to be a fairly large restriction I think.

Andrew

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