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 20v 4AGTE or 7AGTE, and which turbo and EMS? Looking for advice
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MazterDizazter


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259 posts [100%]
Marshfield MA

 20v 4AGTE or 7AGTE, and which turbo and EMS? Looking for advice Reply  Edit


Hey guys,

So I've been tossing the idea around for a while now about building a turbo motor for my AW11. Right now I have the blacktop 20v installed with the C52 5spd and I want moar powah. I bought a Manon Racing Products turbo inlet plenum to replace the factory airbox, and will probably be going back to him to get a custom tubular turbo manifold later. I don't have any particular power goals in mind, but something over 250 would sure be great! I plan on using it for mostly street driving and the occasional auto-x, hill climb or track day.

Right now I know I want to run the 20v head with the ITB's and the custom turbo plenum. What I don't know is everything else. I have a 7A block sitting in my garage right now which I was thinking of building up, or possibly buying an 8.9:1 GZE block and using that instead. I know the extra .2L displacement would be nice but the GZE block would be a simpler affair. Also I'm not sure how much the machine work would cost on installing forged pistons and rods into the 7A, as well as any other machine work that may be necessary. So, pros and cons of GZE vs. 7A?

Also thinking about which turbo to run. I'm very intrigued by Garrett's new GTX series of turbos. They seem to spool quicker than the older GT series in the tests I've looked at. Whereas I would've only considered something as large as a GT2860RS before, I'm wondering if I could utilize a GTX3071R to make more power without having too too much lag? I was hoping the efficiency of the 20v would be enough to flow that turbo without it being a peaky powerband. And should I run external wastegate (plumbed into exhaust, not dumped to atmosphere) or internal?

Next, I'm not sure which standalone EMS would be in my best interest. A lot of DIY'ers praise MegaSquirt up and down, but I know nothing about it other than it's the least expensive option. I don't want to entrust this potentially complicated setup to an inadequate EMS. There are several tuners in my area so I'm sure I can find someone to tune whatever I end up with. What works best for you guys?

Lastly, fuel and ignition system: I have an '04 STi fuel pump in my car now; I think it flows 190lph. Would I need to upgrade, and what size fuel injectors would be good - 440, 550, 720, more? I was thinking of switching from distributor and single coil to 1ZZ-FE coils. Sound OK?

Extra-lastly, has anyone made decent power on a C-series and lived to tell about it? I'm wondering at what point I can expect to blow it up. Would love to not have to get an E-series but if it's necessary, it's necessary.

Right now just looking for thoughts and feedback. I've seen a lot of low-budget builds under 200hp and some big-dollar builds over 400hp. I'm sort of looking to be in between - not too cheap but not too expensive, either. Help is appreciated!



1987 Toyota MR2 hardtop
20v blacktop 4A-GE
Ground control, Koni, Cusco, ST
XXR, Toyo, Wilwood, EBC, Odyssey
Recaro, MOMO, Fidanza, SPEC




MazterDizazter


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259 posts [100%]
Marshfield MA

  » Reply  Edit


Here's the maps of the two turbos for comparison's sake:





1987 Toyota MR2 hardtop
20v blacktop 4A-GE
Ground control, Koni, Cusco, ST
XXR, Toyo, Wilwood, EBC, Odyssey
Recaro, MOMO, Fidanza, SPEC


Evo_lucian




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1584 posts [95%]
Saint Lucia, West Indies

 Re: 20v 4AGTE or 7AGTE, and which turbo an ... (MazterDizazter) » Reply  Edit


AEM EMS4 or megasquirt 2 or 3 would be my choice for EMS.

for turbo i would skip the garrets personally. IMO they are too expensive for what they are. i would go with something from precision like a
4831B
http://www.precisionturbo.net/...1B/55

or a 3254E
http://www.precisionturbo.net/...E/473

Skip the 4agze block, just look for a set of used, smallport, silvertop or 4agze rods and a set of used 4agze piston and save yourself some cash.

the sti pump should beable to flow enough to make 350 hp easily so its good for now. pick up some 550cc injectors. They are good for about 340 hp on pump gas.



Dwight
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

A$s¤hoŁ€ since 1986.

The only thing in life worse than being talked about is not being talked about

my site
http://budgetracer.webs.com


MazterDizazter


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259 posts [100%]
Marshfield MA

  » Reply  Edit


Thank you! Anyone else care to chime in?



1987 Toyota MR2 hardtop
20v blacktop 4A-GE
Ground control, Koni, Cusco, ST
XXR, Toyo, Wilwood, EBC, Odyssey
Recaro, MOMO, Fidanza, SPEC


teamkunimitsu




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350 posts [100%]
Fukuoka / O.C. ca

  » Reply  Edit


ems from aem! Im about to use a aem ems off of a integra wired into the 4ag harness. aem ems verson 1 is alot cheaper now. Using d16 coilpacks. Went with a cx racing t3 manifold and intake was a custom plenum with runners. Almost done with my build.
bi22le
Member

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13 posts [100%]
London

  » Reply  Edit


Evo-Lucian that is what I am thinking of doing with my BT. Get the AGZE rods and pistons. As far as I understand they should not interfer.

Any idea what power the AGZE rods +Pistons can take? With the 20V BT head it should breath easy!

Evo_lucian




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1584 posts [95%]
Saint Lucia, West Indies

 Re: (bi22le) » Reply  Edit


4agze pistons and rods have been pushed to over 500 whp safely before. 4agze piston in a 20v will make an interference engine, but as long as you keep your timing belt in check you will be fine.



Dwight
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

A$s¤hoŁ€ since 1986.

The only thing in life worse than being talked about is not being talked about

my site
http://budgetracer.webs.com


MazterDizazter


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259 posts [100%]
Marshfield MA

  » Reply  Edit


I spoke to Barry Manon of Manon Racing Produts in New Zealand; he has a 400+whp time attack/drag AE92 Levin with a 7AGTE, and can get me 8.9:1 GZE pistons and custom 7A rods for short money. He can also make a custom turbo manifold for relatively short money. He suggested a Turbonetics T3/T4, thought I may be able to get a Garrett GTX2963R for a good price. I plan to run an external wastegate routed back into the exhaust. He said 440cc injectors will work, though I'm not sure my Supra 440's are compatible with the 20v fuel rail. The STi pump will be good as well.

A couple people on the MR2 forums said they've run between 250-300hp on a C52, sprung clutch and LSD without breaking them. I've also got a line on a C60 6spd gearbox from a Celica GT-S which would be my ideal option. Not only is it stronger than the C52 but I practically NEED another gear for the highway; cruising at 4000rpm in 5th really sucks.



1987 Toyota MR2 hardtop
20v blacktop 4A-GE
Ground control, Koni, Cusco, ST
XXR, Toyo, Wilwood, EBC, Odyssey
Recaro, MOMO, Fidanza, SPEC


Evo_lucian




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1584 posts [95%]
Saint Lucia, West Indies

 Re: (MazterDizazter) » Reply  Edit


I personally dont like garret turbos espcially the gtx series turbos. turbonetics has been left behind in the turbo world. precision is the best out there IMHO and i am sure Chris Miller will agree.

440cc injectors will max out around 275 whp on stock pressure. supra 440 are top fed you need the side fed 440cc injectors from the 3sgte mr2.

c52 will be fine for your goals. the 6 speed has the extra gear but has a higher final drive so the gears are shorter. You can try bigger rims and or tires to help with your highway cruising.



Dwight
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

A$s¤hoŁ€ since 1986.

The only thing in life worse than being talked about is not being talked about

my site
http://budgetracer.webs.com


elnitro


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547 posts [100%]

  » Reply  Edit


i have witness precision turbo fall in 1000 of pieces i recomend garrett or borg warners turbo.
MazterDizazter


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259 posts [100%]
Marshfield MA

  » Reply  Edit


Bought a GTX2863R last night. Just under $1k, needs an exhaust housing so I'll go with a v-band external wastegate. Dual ball bearing, billet compressor wheel. Not as big as originally planned, but should make for better response. Getting a set of 8.9:1 GZE pistons this weekend, too. Just need a set of 7A forged rods and I can start working on putting the block together.

Anyone wanna buy some 440cc top feeds? I guess I need new injectors.

"i have witness precision turbo fall in 1000 of pieces i recomend garrett or borg warners turbo."

Happens to the best of them, Garrett admits to this and designs their turbos not to shatter upon failure. Doesn't mean it won't fail, just means it won't shoot 1000 pieces out of the exhaust when it does...hopefully.



1987 Toyota MR2 hardtop
20v blacktop 4A-GE
Ground control, Koni, Cusco, ST
XXR, Toyo, Wilwood, EBC, Odyssey
Recaro, MOMO, Fidanza, SPEC


MazterDizazter


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259 posts [100%]
Marshfield MA

  » Reply  Edit


Found a guy selling Crower 7A rods for $650; he paid $780 originally and never used them. Sweet! Also picked up a TiAL v-band external WG for $230 brand new. Getting closer!



1987 Toyota MR2 hardtop
20v blacktop 4A-GE
Ground control, Koni, Cusco, ST
XXR, Toyo, Wilwood, EBC, Odyssey
Recaro, MOMO, Fidanza, SPEC


 



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