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 Trueno V3.0: 200 supercharged whp or bust
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Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

 Trueno V3.0: 200 supercharged whp or bust Reply  Edit


This is still a cumulative build. My first build was sticking a stock 4AGZE into an AE111 Trueno, but I didn't really document that. After I blew it up, I rebuilt it and made it a bit quicker, see below.

http://forums.club4ag.com/zero...age=1

Then, it was time to leave the JDM motherland and come back to the states, so I brought my parts with me. A few months later, I'm walking through the junkyard and see this AE92 in the mud. I give it the once over and decide to ask about purchasing it from the junkyard. The deal went through and I took delivery, the car was built with a blacktop.

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=52921

I blew that up too, rebuilt it, stuck it in my MR2, and sold the MR2. Now I'm left with no option except to reboost the AE92. That almost didn't happen, thank AESuperG for inadvertently reigniting the JDM spark necessary for me to see this build through.

On with the build: I'm assembling a temporary GZE engine that I don't care about so it goes together more quickly. That said, I think it's going to run good. It's a 7 rib non-squirter block, 8.9:1 pistons and rods (assemblies are within 1 gram of each other), crank, oil pump, and rear main seal/retainer from my previous Okinawa engine. Main bearings are brand new unused off brand pieces and rod bearings are recycled from my Okinawa engine. God only knows where the thrust bearings came from, could be from 3 different engines for all I know, but they're within spec so I press on. Cylinders were also in great condition so I'm betting ring gap is good to go too, but I forgot to check it. Remember that part about me not caring? This is one of those engines that's too ghetto to fail. I did this on a Ford 5.0 before with much more questionable parts, but great results still. Not many pics, for as ghetto as the bottom end is the top should make up for it. It's my ported head from Okinawa (decided to use this one so I can do a better job porting my other head to make more power on my other good (unassembled) bottom end. I installed the HKS valve springs and will shim the 264/256 cam combo tomorrow. Couple things I noticed about these springs. They have paint on one end. Thank God the wife is Japanese, so I gave her the instructions and asked if there was anything special in there. She said the paint is supposed to face the cylinder head or instability will result. Sounds lame, but it turns out the valve springs are progressive. The coils are closer together on the painted end making that end the heavy end. They're also a tad shorter than the stock springs, but the coils appear to be about the same diameter to the naked eye. A quick squeeze didn't reveal a major difference in pressure either, and I can push the buckets down with my bare hand when installed. This is what made me whip out the instructions and see what kind of trickery HKS was using to make these springs better than stock. From what I can see, the big gain is in the shorter height which staves off coil bind. After that, the lighter weight of the spring must play a role as well as what I assume to be a stiffer rate when compressed. Either way, it's HKS cams with HKS springs, so I know I'm covered. Below are a few pics of the head and springs. I should have more pics tomorrow and better progress to report. Hopefully this thread keeps me on track.

Head's been shaved .017" that I know of. That plus a .8mm MHG gets me about 9.5:1 compression.

The exhaust that I could have done better porting, this is where I left the power on the table.

Here's an intake port. I didn't hog these out, but apparently knife edging that divider with stock valves isn't the way to go.

Exhaust is still hogged out a bit after they merge, so I should get something from that. Supercharged it pulled willingly to the 7750RPM rev limit it had before with stock smallport cams back in 08, so I'm hoping for more pull this time around even at altitude. I'll run E85 and tune more aggressively, so we'll see.



Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

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Got the cement out of the oil pan today and got it and the scraper installed. Also got the head installed, tomorrow I'll shim the cams and hopefully I can get them timed before next weekend so I can concentrate on porting my blower and getting that bolted to the engine. Then for Thanksgiving weekend I hope to get the transmission assembled. Best case scenario, the engine and trans get bolted in the car weekend after next.

Below are the bores that are in such good shape.

Here the head's ready to go.

And here's the engine mocked up. It actually looks like a motor, so I'm a little pumped now.



Modified by Crownvicman289 at 5:46 AM 11/13/2012

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


I started yesterday by shimming the cams, only had 1 bucket that I couldn't get in spec, the rest were +-.001" from the ideal setting.

Next I popped my cherry on setting cam timing. Stock centerlines are 111/111. HKS recommended 110/110 for their 256, 264, and 272 cams. I deviated and went with 107/113, which is advanced 4 degrees from factory on both sides, but maintains the same lobe separation angle. This should help maximize torque and since I moved the exhaust too, I didn't kill my top end. By increasing overlap, I could boost midrange by sacrificing top end. This would also make my idle a little choppier. I might try it, but I think I have a good starting point where I am now. FWIW in the reference section here it mentions some old TRD 264s that called for a 106/116 setup, which is even further advanced that where I am and with the exhaust advanced more than the intake.

I was once asked for a shot of the inside of my intake, here it is.

And here's where I ended up last night.




Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


Well I started today on the exhaust side of the engine. I wanted to get the accessory mount cleaned and torqued. I also needed to figure out what I was going to do for an oil filter/oil cooler and to get the exhaust manifold fully installed. For the oil filter/cooler, I found that the factory cooler bypass housing thingy wouldn't fit with the monster AE101 accessory bracket, so I'll need to use a standard type housing. One of the ears that has the outer housing bolting to the inner housing hits the mount and I can't just buzz that off. I do need to hit the boneyard and get something off of a 4A-FE so I can just bite the bullet and install my oil filter relocation kit.

This allows me to keep my factory oil pressure sensor in its factory location thus keeping my factory gauge alive even if I don't care about it. I'm anal about stuff working. The relocation deal also has a billion ports so I can simultaneously run my Greddy oil pressure gauge. Since it'll be a royal PITA to plug in the factory sensor with the bracket installed, I made a sub-harness to get me started. I ended up routing it to the left of both bosses instead of between them to get me more header clearance on the sub-harness.

Once that was done, I modified a factory 20V exhaust gasket to work with my 16V header. Since this head is ported, the exhaust ports are much larger than a factory gasket will allow. The 16V TRD exhaust gasket that I last used has since been discontinued, but the 20V gasket is still being produced. That and it's metal. The header is now fully installed/torqued to spec including the support plate on the bottom. Got the accessory mount on, then marked TDC on my 170mm crank pulley and got my timing pointer installed. Also took the time to repaint that nasty stock water pump pulley. I was previously running an NST water pump pulley, smaller than stock, but since the motor was on the stand I decided to see if a stock pulley would work, which it does, and my pump will spin a little slower now. Finally I got to the supercharger. I disassembled it and found this all throughout my blower, nasty. I'm pretty sure I was killing it back in Okinawa and that doesn't surprise me in the least. Only on a track have I beaten a car as hard as I did in Okinawa.

It was much thicker and nastier inside the blower case. I still need another can of carb cleaner to get it all off the lobes. I don't know if it was like that when I got it or what the deal is, I'll just have to keep an eye on it I guess. It always did sound a bit funky, which is why I was so glad I snagged that spare blower on my way out of Okinawa. I checked the bearings, and while they seemed to be in OK condition, they were pretty tough to spin. I hit them with some WD40 to lighten up the lube a bit and break it down to free them up. Then, I hit the with fresh wheel bearing grease and they seem much happier now. Finally, I decided to start porting the blower. The center dividers are massive, but I'm betting they serve a purpose, so I opted to thing them down rather than eliminate them altogether. I started with the intake side, I'm betting that's the money maker of the 2. While I was at it, I enlarged the opening ever so slightly. I'm talking a 1-2mm increase in radius. I figure going that small, it's hard to go wrong. I also tried to square the corners out a little more too since they had such a lazy radius to begin with.

Yes, the marker marks are a guess, but I think I did OK.



The goal here wasn't to go crazy, but rather to get a portion of what's on the table. Hopefully my choices didn't cost me any power. Here's the engine mocked up with my spare blower, the blower ripped apart has been modified to accept an SC12 style pulley and even if I moved this one forward to fit, the inlet pipe would then require modification to clear the water pump. Already looked into it, that's why I mounted it in the first place.

Here's a shot of the monster AE101 accessory bracket necessary to retain PS, AC and alternator function in a FWD platform.

Here's an interesting view, I couldn't take shots like this in my previous build because I had no cherry picker in Okinawa so anything more than a short block wasn't getting carried from the house to the car to be lifted by hand into the car. I think this is progressing more quickly this time because 1: the customization is already done and 2: I can put a whole motor ready to rock with transmission in the car in 1 shot now.

Hoping to have the blower fully ported, reassembled, and installed on the motor by Thanksgiving Day. From there, I need only assemble the transmission and mate it to the motor prior to plugging it into the car. If I can find a press, I hope to have the powertrain hung by next Sunday.

4doorGTS
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313 posts [97%]
Teh Hammer ON

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


sweet, nice to see its going to live another day. couple questions:

if you were going turbo, all else the same, what would you do with the cams?

what trans/clutch are you using? E series?



4 door love

WTB - TRD rear sway bar for ae92, and power steering lines for ae92 gts rust free

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

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Turbo or SC, I want 272s. I got the 264/256 combo local and cheap. My next build, which I have most of the parts for, will be a 20V GZE preferrably with Toda 272 cams. I have a machine shop fresh unassembled balanced .5mm over 8.9:1 GZE squirter bottom end. I also have a partially ported blacktop head and the spare blower you see in the pics. I want to use my C56 (has Kaaz diff), but don't have a clutch that'll hold or a lightweight flywheel like I do for the E58 that I will be using.
4doorGTS
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313 posts [97%]
Teh Hammer ON

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


I don't mean to stray from your build but I know you have been around guys, and are yourself, quite knowledgeable with these engines and modifying them. Forced induction cam theory for these engines is not really a common topic, and yes you will see the odd dyno that has cams in it but no real mention as to why the cams ended up where they did.

So with your set-up for example, has little restriction on the exhaust side of things so opening the intake valve sooner and further can allow greater cylinder fill. while the shorter duration exhaust cam with some help from some overlap and no restriction in exhaust (ie. turbo) should allow it to keep up with the intake and just breathe better all around?

Now throw a turbo on the same set-up would you want any overlap allowing cooler incoming charge cooling the turbine down? would it even be a factor? In this situation would you want the larger duration cam on the exhaust side to help evacuate as much of the old charge as possible and keep hot side of turbo to temperature?

I currently have a hks 272 8.35 and a 264 8.35 and am trying to figure out where, and why, to put them on a ae92 4agze swap with stock ecu and smaller t25 turbo, or if its even worth it.



4 door love

WTB - TRD rear sway bar for ae92, and power steering lines for ae92 gts rust free

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

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The school of though I'm starting with is a fast NA engine makes for a fast boosted engine. All these people that say stock smallport cams are the end all boost cam are retarded, plain and simple. I think you're driving more toward optimal cam timing/overlap for a sc vs turbo, which I can't speak that smartly to as this is uncharted territory for me as well, I just understand the theory well enough to take a small step in the right direction. What I now know though are my centerlines for intake and exhaust, so when I make changes it won't be to some arbitrary value.

As far as deciding where to put the bigger cam, I just used the NA theory. In an American V8, the intake flow tends to be at a ratio to the exhaust flow much higher than in a DOHC head, so the exhaust side of the cam will almost always be bigger. In the DOHC world, it's not uncommon to see the bigger cam up front. That and my exhaust side is ported out more than I did to the intake side and I have a pretty big header this time around. IMO, for turbo or SC, the ideal solution is to either have square cams (same I&E) or to get a matched set of cams. I believe NST is selling cams now and the intake is just a smidge bigger than the exhaust, not 8 degrees like me and you are dealing with.

4doorGTS
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313 posts [97%]
Teh Hammer ON

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


Yeah I'm just trying to get a better understanding of how the dynamic of pressures play their role in cam timing/size. Like you said about intake to exhaust pressure ratio, trying to see how lets say a 2:1 ratio for a sc set-up compared to a possible 1:2 intake to exhaust pressure ratio for a less than ideal trubo set-up can change where you want valve events to end up.

I noticed that kelford also makes a turbo specific cam (262/266 8.25adv - 220-226 @1mm) but don't know if thats based upon an ideal pressure ratio and $800 plus shipping is just not happening right now.

http://www.camshaftshop.com/pr...specs

are you trying to maintain a similar stock static c/r with the cams installed, or just trying what parts you have for now? or are your centerlines negative overlap?



4 door love

WTB - TRD rear sway bar for ae92, and power steering lines for ae92 gts rust free

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

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Nice thing about Kelford cams is you can get any spec you want, not just their off the shelf cams. Furthermore, they're a bit more generous with lift so I'm inclined to thinking their cams can make some juice. As far as the cams go, I'm only using them because I got them cheap and they're better than stock. My decision to go bigger on the intake is based on the fact that the intake side is where the power is made, and since I don't have a turbo in my exhaust stream to muddy the waters, I'm kind of treating it like an NA engine. The centerlines I chose maintained the same amount of overlap that HKS calls for, I just advanced the pair together to kill off a little top end and make more torque under the curve. We're not talking about a huge amount of power here, but I know I'm on the right track because some old TRD cams called for 106/116. I was very tempted to go 106/114. I'll set my rev cut at 8500 and anticipate the engine will rev nicely to 8200-8300. 8200 RPMs spins the blower to almost 12000 RPMs. IIRC, the SC14 should only be spun to 10,000 whereas the SC12 can take 11,000. Because of this, it might be wise to increase the overlap and kill off more top end.
Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

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Yesterday I finished porting the blower and today I got it installed. My inlet pipe was nasty, I couldn't believe how un-blended it was. Shame on me for running it like that last go around. First thing I noticed when I took the blower apart was the front bearings were sticky. A shot of WD40 freed them up and some wheel bearing grease will hopefully keep them alive. I guess that 20 year old factory stuff had had it. Next I noticed that the gasket was blown out on my outlet pipe, a sign that the flange was warped when it was modified. Another boost leak! I still have to fix that, thinking belt sander right now. It seems a little underkill for a machine shop. I also re-shimmed the blower pulley and got the blower positioned for better belt alignment than before.

For reference, here's a stock inlet on the supercharger that I'm using.

And here's mine.

And here's the view through the inlet pipe, now decently blended.

Got that bolted up to the motor, belt installed, ready to rock (minus the discharge pipe that needs to be straightened out). Now all I need to do is build my transmission. . .


Angry4AG




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425 posts [96%]
Bronx NY/Okinawa JP/And now in Las Vegas NV

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


Dustin!!!! Stop this madness!!!

Haha..

This has got to be the best bunch of updates i have seen in a while. Not only have you shook the spider webs of procrastination, but you are adding some more cool little mods that will force this 4a into insanity.

Good job man

And if you get tired sip on a 5 hour energy with a teaspoon on 91 octane.
It helps



http://www.sdsefi.com/features/jan064ag.htm

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

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Madness? It's child's play compared to what you're doing. I'm not the only one improving things along the way. I don't recall your last build having a sleeved block or an 8.8" rear end. If you're not progressing somehow, then what's the point? I think we're both on that page. Now it doesn't look like much, but here's what i accomplished today.

I've had all the fun I can stand for 1 day. With any luck, it'll be mated to the engine and hung up in the car tomorrow.

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

  » Reply  Edit


Motor's in.


AEsuperG




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301 posts [99%]
westy CO

  » Reply  Edit


nicely spent four day weekend!



-TEAM HINGA-
Angry4AG




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425 posts [96%]
Bronx NY/Okinawa JP/And now in Las Vegas NV

 Re: (AEsuperG) » Reply  Edit


AEsuperG!!

How have you been bruddah? are you also part of slapping dustin awake haha



http://www.sdsefi.com/features/jan064ag.htm

oldeskewltoy




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13133 posts [99%]
Portland

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Hmmmmm... those chambers look a might bit larger then stock... did you CC them for their volume? How did you determine your estimated static compression ratio?



Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/ USE it!

I've been wrong before... and at somepoint in time, I'll be wrong again

AEsuperG




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301 posts [99%]
westy CO

 Re: (Angry4AG) » Reply  Edit


been good. heard you been busy. time to slap you back into it too?



-TEAM HINGA-
Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

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Will has a motor, intercooler, and pipes installed last I saw, so he's been slapped up as well. Jerry is the reason this thing just happened in the last 3 weeks, one little conversation in a Lowe's parking lot about the good ol' days in Oki and I couldn't put the wrench down. It's his block.

OST, I cc'd the chambers back in 2007. I believe they were ~34cc each, and IIRC that's what stock claims to be, so I just used a table on the MR2 forums that gives a CR for a particular amount of material removed from the head. 9.5 is just an estimate, but I should be within a tenth or 2 unless part of what think I know is wrong.

oldeskewltoy




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13133 posts [99%]
Portland

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Crownvicman289 »

OST, I cc'd the chambers back in 2007. I believe they were ~34cc each, and IIRC that's what stock claims to be, so I just used a table on the MR2 forums that gives a CR for a particular amount of material removed from the head. 9.5 is just an estimate, but I should be within a tenth or 2 unless part of what think I know is wrong.

You are wrong... at least when it comes to stock chamber volume being 34cc. Stock chambers are 36cc... took me a while to find it, but in the TRD Bible, in the AE92 engine manual, there is a notation that stock chambers are 36cc. I've confirmed this many times.





Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/ USE it!

I've been wrong before... and at somepoint in time, I'll be wrong again

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

  » Reply  Edit


That sounds familiar now, cc'ing hogged out chambers to less than their original volume. Seemed bass ackwards to me, so I just used stock volumes to calculate my CR the last time. Since I didn't measure how far above/below the deck the pistons are, I can't just plug in 34cc to calculate my CR the right way.
the galis




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93 posts [100%]
Bridgetown Speedville

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


Great build so far just read up on your 111 we need to chat I putting a super charger in a 101 that seems to be a never ending build
Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

 Slight Progress » Reply  Edit


I finally made some actual progress on the car. I believe I've finished modding the longitudinal member, it fits with the header and now gives me access to the inner flange bolt, presumably with the k-member and b-pipe installed. B-pipe is at the top of my list to build now, so I'll find out soon enough. Here are some pics of what I did. I used the pieces I cut out to fill it back in with my wire feed welder. I'm not savvy enough yet to predict when it will and won't blow through, so there are some areas where I could have turned up the heat for better penetration or just lingered longer to let it all sink in. I'm sure it will be fine as is though.




Also got my PS lines rerouted to clear the blower outlet and impending intercooler piping. The return line ran just below the AC lines and was dead in the way of some intercooler piping. Also fitted a different dipstick assembly that sits lower and doesn't interfere with intercooler piping. Got it all clamped down so it can't flop around and get into the pulleys. First had to lower the lines down by the rack to run under the blower outlet, which isn't that visible from this angle.


Next I worked my way up to the middle clamp and fitted a rubber hose in place of the factory metal hard line for the return which fit the factory clamp perfectly. I next bolted an adel clamp to the pressure hose to keep it away from the pulleys.

Then I plugged the rubber into the reservoir and tweaked the hard pressure line to fit the pump. I'm missing 1 clamp that goes to the motor mount because I broke the 1 I had and that was the last 1.

So next up is getting the little filters for my injectors and installing those since the Toyota o-rings all came in. I've got fuel and coolant to plumb, got to install the axles and suspension, build the b-pipe, wire it up, make it run, intercool it, and a bunch of other crap so plenty left to keep me busy.

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

 Re: Slight Progress (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


While the k member was out, I decided to test fit the super strut k-member to see where I'm at. All of 2 bolts lines up, which is enough to get me going, but not this time around. Here's a SS member stacked on a regular AE92 member with the 2 bolts stabbed through the 2 to line them up and see how the rest line up. 2 of the rear ones will be as simple as outlining the hole and drilling it out which is enough to hold the member in place while I work on it. I'll also need to fab some spacers up to fill in the gap on teh back where the AE111 "frame rails" extend farther forward than the AE92 ones. I'll also need to put a nut on the backside of that which will require me to cut up the floorboards a bit inside the car.

And here's that gap I was talking about.

After that, I decided to bolt it all back in. Got the long member painted up and it looks less like ass now.


NA vs SC axles

SC axles ready to rock (except for that clamp I need to buy tomorrow).

Then I decided to unwrap another goody that's been sitting for 4 years.

Because I don't trust the mail.


And I don't have a shot of the radiator, awesome. It's a Koyo for an FD modded to work in a 16V FWD application. Now my concern with the suspension. Here's my wheel gap at full droop.

No biggie, that seems like plenty of travel. Now check out my lower control arms at full droop.

That's where I want them with weight on wheels. Not cool, no wonder they're bowed upwards when the car's on the ground. Here I thought I'd overlowered it. Plenty of room in there to mod the balljoints, so there's a plus I guess. I think for now I'll just stick the stock radiator in since it actually fits with that monstrosity of a header. For the Koyo to fit, I'll need to shove the AC condensor forward which requires me to mod the strut that goes up the center of the core support and reinforces the hood hings. What a PITA.


Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

  » Reply  Edit


Well progress feels painstakingly slow, but I'm using my time off to my advantage to try to get the wiring done as it's one of the bigger asspains of the project. I went from this 2 days ago:

To this just now.

Pictures don't do justice to the amount of time and pondering put into such a thing. Here's the new ECU location, also designed to be more serviceable. What a PITA it was to reach in the stock location like I had in Japan.

Still have high hopes of firing it off in the next week, looks like I'm on track now. When I close the glove box, it just kisses the harness, so no real strain on it. When I said I had a couple connections to change over to solder I exaggerated, because there are an assload. Seems I didn't start doing swaps properly until I hit the states. :rolleyes: I don't know what I was thinking when I did the initial standalone install in Japan, I've found a good bit of unnecessary bullshjterytery in the harness and it appears that the A/C wasn't properly wired which explains why it was so funky in the first place. Now that I have diagrams in English I think it'll work more factory-like without the intervention of a toggle switch. Toyota with their A/C amplifiers certainly didn't help the cause though, that thing really muddies the waters.

 



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