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 getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help!
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eightysixer23
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361 posts [100%]
City Of Angels

 getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! Reply  Edit


this was my orignal post under megasquirt for dummies....http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=11048&page=27
i aqquired this 20v from a friend who had it running daily in his 86 hatch. however he got the car with it so not much info from that source.
the motor is a silvertop 20v and its wired up to a mega squirt system msv, 2.2
msv30bg msnse: i opened it up because im super curious about whats inside lol.
I built my car with a 16v and after i blew it i had the oppurtunity to aqquire this, i thought the challange would be fun!!!! however although i know it runs the way it is wired i feel that there should be more things wired after all the stuff i have read on many different threads.
so here it goes i have pics of the things wired and the things that aren't.
heres the megasquirt!

my silver top!



cas i believe......i have to clean it all up that screw is just there to hold the sensor from hanging.

under side of the connector.... looks like a lot of open slots if you ask me lol...

dont know what this is.... its under the itbs......oil temp????

?????looks like the tvis butterfly plug on the 16v??

?????

wired in to the connector but just coiled


top side of the plug

vvt and temp not wired

this is wired??? im going to relocate the waters.

this plugs in to only 3 wires on the underdash....ignition

the temp sending untis is wired but not the top sensor????

not sure what this is.

injectors!!!!!

tps


So guys help with what you can. i can do this challange just need some guidence on whats really needed and what isnt needed.also how to wire up what is needed like the vvt solenoid. im going to do oil temp gauge ,water temp,and oil pressure along with a tachometer in my car so if any suggestions on certain plugs i can use to power those readings. thanks guys!!!! i know its long just wanted to cover it all.


Modified by eightysixer23 at 12:34 PM 12/1/2012



jondee86
Reggae Rules...



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Wellington, NZ

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (eightysixer23) » Reply  Edit


Oil pressure sensor = round silver drum front of engine exhaust side
VVT Solenoid = grey valve exhaust side above oil pressure sensor
Knock sensor = square grey plug in block under the ITB's
Carbon canister purge solenoid = blue valve under ITB's
ISCV = large grey solenoid under ITB's at the rear (steel tubes in and out)

Good luck

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

eightysixer23
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City Of Angels

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


Thanks for the info!!! Now that they are identified what might be the pros and cons on not having these wired to the ms! And if needed how to wire it up
jondee86
Reggae Rules...



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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (eightysixer23) » Reply  Edit


Oil pressure sensor is for your gauge, not the ECU, so you can ignore for now.
VVT oil solenoid needs wiring if it is supported by your MS.
Knock sensor, not essential, but useful if supported by MS.
Purge solenoid, not essential, but better for the environment if supported by MS.
ISCV not essential but nice if MS version supports a 3-wire PWM solenoid ISCV.

Coiled up wires are most likely just spares. You need to try and establish exactly
what version of MS you have, and what functions it supports. That looks like an
EDIS toothed wheel on the crank. Did you get an EDIS control unit in your box
of bits and pieces ?

I don't have MS on my engine, so I'm not gonna be much help. Sorry bout dat

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

foonix


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null null

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


Oil pressure sensor actually goes to the dash. It's for the oil pressure gauge and not used by the ECU. I really like to have this. IIRC it is wired to one of the wires in the "C" connector from the fsm, that sits on the firewall above the exhaust cam. It requires a 16v version of this sensor to run the gauge.

The MS does not have a built in circuit for handling knock sensors, so it takes an external circuit to read the knock sensor signal and provide a signal to the ECU. The basic drawback of lack of knock sensor is if the ignition profile is too aggressive it could cause detonation.

Example hardware: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/knock.htm
Info specific to the ms1: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...knock

Carbon canister purge is only needed for emissions, but good luck passing emissions legitimately with an imported engine.

ISCV is used to control the idle speed. I'm guessing the previous owner came up with a different way to do this. If it is not disconnected and capped it will allow a random amount of air into the engine. It looks like idle speed is not controlled by the MS at all in your setup. If you want, you can probably use the F-IDLE stuff to control a solenoid to idle up the engine when cold. This is probably easier than using the ISCV. I've built an ISCV controller using ms2 on a v3.0 board and some more external circuits, but I don't know how to do it on the ms1/v2.2.

Many of the open slots on the top row the MS connector are actually sensor common ground spots. If you look at the wiring diagram for the MS v2.2 board ( http://www.bgsoflex.com/v22/msv22.html ) on the bottom of page 5, it shows all the pins on the top row are connected internally. So, you can use them to ground the MS, or to provide ground for a sensor. So, it is not unusual that many are unused.

Since you have EDIS you might also want to read up on the basics of that at some point:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...#edis

It requires surprisingly little to get the engine to start. Really it just takes the CAS and MAP sensors. But, it can be tuned to take advantage of more information.

eightysixer23
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City Of Angels

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


thanx jondeee you might not have ms but i swear you always have good answers lol thanks again....
Quote, originally posted by jondee86 »
Oil pressure sensor is for your gauge, not the ECU, so you can ignore for now.
VVT oil solenoid needs wiring if it is supported by your MS.
Knock sensor, not essential, but useful if supported by MS.
Purge solenoid, not essential, but better for the environment if supported by MS.
ISCV not essential but nice if MS version supports a 3-wire PWM solenoid ISCV.

Coiled up wires are most likely just spares. You need to try and establish exactly
what version of MS you have, and what functions it supports. That looks like an
EDIS toothed wheel on the crank. Did you get an EDIS control unit in your box
of bits and pieces ?

I don't have MS on my engine, so I'm not gonna be much help. Sorry bout dat

Cheers... jondee86


i doo have an edis control box its all wired up just for got to post the pics....
and besides whats already wired the things that arent are for the most part optional but better if they are wired and supported by my ms.
i have the msv2.2,is there any way i can see what is supported by megasquirt? like i said where i got it from knows nothing more than what i do about this.....
foonix


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null null

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (eightysixer23) » Reply  Edit


Since it is set up with the "ms extra" firmware, I'd start with skimming the manual for that to see what is supported by the software and work down from there.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...x.htm

For example, since the software supports launch rev limiter and flat shifting, with the appropriate circuits build you could have those features.

There is a lot of flexibility with the generic outputs to build different things. I'm using one to control a relay that runs an electric fan. VVT would be controlled the same way.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...tputs

eightysixer23
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 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (foonix) » Reply  Edit


Cool I'm starting to get this whole DIY idea lol. May I ask how you set up for the fan I need to do the same. Also.
eightysixer23
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 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (eightysixer23) » Reply  Edit


Also I for some reason can't download on to my computer the megatune or anything mega squirt related . Is there a software cd I have to purchase to install to my comp??
foonix


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 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (eightysixer23) » Reply  Edit


Megatune should work, it's free. You should just need the ms extra version of megatune, which should be the first link here:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...nload

You can also try tuner studio, which is free but can be paid for to get some extra features. It is a bit nicer to use and works on osx and linux.

http://tunerstudio.com/index.php/tuner-studio

The fan control is set up almost exaclty like the output section from the manual. Mine is a bit different because I have a 3.0 board, but the basic process is the same. On the 2.2 board there is not much place to soldier the transistor, so you have to be creative.

So say you want to use output 2 to control the fan just like in the exmaple.. it would go something like this:

* soldier the hole X5 to a resistor (possibly via a wire)
* soldier the other end of the resistor to the "base" leg on the correct type of transistor (again can use a wire here or between any other parts)
* soldier a wire from something connected to a ground in the MS to the "emitter" leg of the transistor
* soldier the "collector" leg to the non-banded end of a diode
* soldier the banded end of the diode to +12v
* solder a wire from between the non-banded end of the diode to one of X11 through X14 on the board. I think your X11 is already used for edis, so for example you could use X14. This brings the circuit to the main connector.
* Run a wire from pin 31 on the main connector to the coil side of the relay
* run a wire from +12v somewhere to both the other coil side of the relay and the fan 's +12v input.
* run a wire from the switch side of the relay to ground.
* Run a wire from the ground side of the fan to the other switched side of the relay.

hah ok after typing that all out I can see it looks like a lot of work, but it's not so bad once used to soldiering. There are kits you can use to cut a lot of work and mess out of the process, here is what I am using:

http://www.diyautotune.com/cat....html

It's got hardware for 4 separate outputs and with some mods it can run the stock tach. For your fan you would just wire X5 to IN1 on the daughter board and OUT1 to X14, and then the internal wiring is done. If you ever decide to ditch EDIS it can read the build in silvertop CAS directly. I probably sound like a salesman for DIY, but they have been a lifesaver getting my project off the ground :D

foonix


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null null

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (foonix) » Reply  Edit


I would say just concentrate on getting the tuning software up and running and get it talking to the MS for now. Take a backup of the existing config as soon as you can get the software to talk to it. At that point look around and soak it all in, but don't touch any settings yet.


eightysixer23
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 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (foonix) » Reply  Edit


lol not a sales man but i can tell that you have a lot of experiance with it. i appreciate it a lot .. i finally got it to work for some reason although i had the new java reader it had the old one on. so now that ive downloaded it i have to wait until i can get power to the motor so that i can get power to the mega squirt.

eightysixer23
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City Of Angels

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (foonix) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by foonix »
I would say just concentrate on getting the tuning software up and running and get it talking to the MS for now. Take a backup of the existing config as soon as you can get the software to talk to it. At that point look around and soak it all in, but don't touch any settings yet.


Hey finally got the programs downloaded and I've been reading so much about mega squirt that I can stop thinking about lol!! Feels like ever informative page leads you to another and another and another!!! Hey any suggestions on wide band?!!! Diyautotune says most ms2.2 where pre wired for a wideband ?!?
foonix


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 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (eightysixer23) » Reply  Edit


Hah, welcome down the rabbit hole. :D Just watch that the page you are looking at applies to your MS version, sometimes it doesn't.

As far as I know nothing special to do for wideband as far as wiring. I'm using the Innovate MTX-L from DIY's site and it was really easy to set up. Just +12v power/ground to the controller, one wire to the correct pin on the MS, then it was just a matter of software setup.

The only hard part was that the sensor will not connect to the stock AE86 manifold. I took a stock O2 sesonsr, cut off the plate that bolts to the manifold off, and had someone cut the Innovative sensor bung in half and weld it onto the plate. So now I have a bolt on sensor bung that goes in the stock location that the sensor screws into normally. Then just route the cable from the sensor to the guage and you're done.

Make sure that the ground on the sensor goes to the exact same place as the MS ground or the reading in the MS will be all kinds of bad.

benny_toe




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224 posts [99%]
Seattle WA

 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (foonix) » Reply  Edit


Fan control on a 20V is pretty simple. Don't worry about a MS hookup, you have a temperature controlled switch on the rear water manifold. That is controlling my fan on a Silver Top.



Larry
mbnlwj3@gmail.com
foonix


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 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (benny_toe) » Reply  Edit


Yeah, if you have the switch, may as well use it. I'm using the standard water distro block so I had the bung shaved off to reduce the amount of firewall pounding required to make the inlet pipe fit.
98AE111




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 Re: getting to know my 20v! megasquirt noob help! (eightysixer23) » Reply  Edit


It's not hard as u think to MegaSquirt the 20 Valve.

 



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