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 Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas.
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scotttombaugh
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14 posts [100%]
Venice Fl

 Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. Reply  Edit


Good day all,

I have my ST running on BT electronics started and idling rough but it dies at the instant throttle is applied.

Initially I was getting a code 12.

When I got the motor the distributor had been hit pretty hard and the sensor wheel was pushed up against the pickup coils.

When I couldn't get the proper gap I persuaded the sensor wheel (whacked the shaft with with a hammer) into the correct position.

Now the code is cleared and I get the correct gap and ohms but I think it may be moving.

Has anyone else had an issue with ether a silver or blacktop dizzy exhibiting this behavior?

I have no CEL codes.

I have 40 PSI at the fuel rail. (Checked with fuel meter).

I have checked all the ECU pin outs to the BGB and they test good for voltage, ground and/or ohms.

I have good voltage at the Water Temp, ISCV and AIT sensors and the sensors themselves ohm out to the BGB.

The TPS ohms out good to the BGB.

I have new distributor cap, rotor and plug wires.

I have a new battery.

I have swapped out the coil and igniter.

The vacuum hoses under the throttle bodies are all attached and in good condition.

Thanks,

Scott



jondee86
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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (scotttombaugh) » Reply  Edit


Have you checked the ignition timing ??

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

scotttombaugh
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14 posts [100%]
Venice Fl

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


Thanks Jondee86,

With #1 cylinder at TDC, and rotor pointing to #1 plug wire the intake cam timing mark hits the mark on the valve cover, approx 12 o'clock and the 2nd timing mark is at 3 o'clock. The exhaust cam timing mark hits the mark on the valve cover, approx 12 o'clock and the 2nd timing mark is at 9 o'clock. This makes the 2nd timing marks on the intake and exhaust face each other.

jondee86
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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (scotttombaugh) » Reply  Edit


I was thinking more of checking the spark timing with a timing light.
Short TE1 and E1 in the check connector/diagnostic box. With the engine idling
you should read 8-12 deg of timing advance on the crank pulley mark against
the timing scale on the lower cam belt cover.

Cheers... jondee86



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Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

morgan
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6446 posts [93%]
just be glad your not here, nj

  » Reply  Edit


There's a few screws, 2 iirc, that keep the sponsors on place. Loosen the to set the ap, then tighten back up. No need to adjust the shaft.



haha cali...i got one of you 86's, and your not getting it back.
my 20v in an 86 swap guide
my mess of an 86...
*east coast toyotas forum*
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
scotttombaugh
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14 posts [100%]
Venice Fl

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


Looks like I need to hunt down an Open Circuit relay problem. Runs with FP to B+ jumper-ed in the diagnostic terminal.

Any advice?
scotttombaugh
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14 posts [100%]
Venice Fl

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (scotttombaugh) » Reply  Edit


I checked the Open Circuit Relay to the BGB and it ohms good and when I apply voltage to either STA and E1 or B and FC I can hear the contact close.

When I get voltage at Fp when cranking but not when started.

With the key on I get 12V at FC.

Is this then an ECU issue?

jondee86
Reggae Rules...



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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (scotttombaugh) » Reply  Edit


Just a random suggestion (since I don't have a 20V myself), but I have seen this
come up a few times before when 20V's don't run well. Have you got the STA wire
hooked up to the ECU ? Don't even know for sure what it does, only it has cured a
few weird problems for other folk, so worth checking

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

98AE111




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103 posts [100%]

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (scotttombaugh) » Reply  Edit


Are you using the BT Harness?
scotttombaugh
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14 posts [100%]
Venice Fl

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


Thanks for the suggestion.

The STA is hooked up.

scotttombaugh
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14 posts [100%]
Venice Fl

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (98AE111) » Reply  Edit


I am using a combination of the Blacktop engine harness and original body harness prepared by MR220V.
98AE111




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103 posts [100%]

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (scotttombaugh) » Reply  Edit


swapped out distributor
jondee86
Reggae Rules...



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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (scotttombaugh) » Reply  Edit


Gonna assume that you are using the AE111 (BT) 4-pin Circuit Opening Relay.

If so, the logic appears to be that the ECU sees 12V on the STA pin when the key
is in the CRANK position, and then supplies a ground on the FC pin to close the COR.
That is, the operation of the COR is totally controlled by the ECU. Since you don't
have an AFM to act as a safety cutoff in the event of "engine stopped, ignition on"
situation, the ECU will use some other input to decide that the FP should be off.

Shorting B+ and FP bypasses the COR and puts 12V directly on the FP.

From what you have said, the engine starts and idles, but dies with throttle.
However, if you short B+ and FP the engine runs normally. Is this correct ??

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

scotttombaugh
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14 posts [100%]
Venice Fl

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


Correct. It runs with B+ and Fp shorted
scotttombaugh
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14 posts [100%]
Venice Fl

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


I am running the original 5 pin relay.
jondee86
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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (scotttombaugh) » Reply  Edit


With the original AE86 5-pin relay, it should work like this...

1. Turn the key ON and you should get 12V at pin 2.
2. Pin 1 is connected to the Fuel Pump.
3. Pin 4 connects to FC on the ECU.
4. Pin 3 receives 12V when the key is in the CRANK position.
5. Pin 5 is connected to chassis ground.

So the sequence is... the COR is energised by 12V from the START circuit for as
long as the key is in the CRANK position. The ECU also receives 12V on the STA
pin. This tells it to fire the injectors with extra enrichment for starting.

When the ECU decides the engine is running, it provides a ground on the FC pin
and energises the COR via the second coil. This will happen quickly enough to
make sure that the second coil is energised before the "START" coil is de-energised.

If your engine starts and idles, all this must be happening. But if you don't get a
good 12V supply to the FP from the COR while the engine is running, it suggests
you have a poor connection on the supply side of pin 2. I'd try testing that supply
with a 24 Watt incandescent bulb, or maybe run a temporary test lead direct from
the battery to pin 2, and see if it makes a difference.

Cheers... jondee86




jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

HASportAE86
IE Gutter Trash



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4096 posts [84%]
Loma Linda CA

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


The FC wire isn't hooked up right on the 20v ecu. FC pin needs to go to the green/red wire of the circuit open relay. You have fuel for the cranking but the relay will not stay on in the RUN position. Your engine is running off the initial fuel prime for cranking, then runs out of fuel and dies because the relay isn't staying on. Cut the green/red wire at the COR and connect to pin FC, so that you have a wire running from the COR to the ECU.

This was why my first 20v swap wouldn't start. Ohhhh memories <3

Side note: Jondee is an ocean away and is always on the same page tech wise as me. Dope Cheers my kiwi friend



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jondee86
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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: Damaged Dizzy? Help. Running out of ideas. (HASportAE86) » Reply  Edit


Hey Dan... you do good work Hope you had a good year, and that
2013 will be even better. Happy New Year to you, and all club4AG members

And remember... don't and drive !!

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

 



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