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 How To Get DLI on Stock 20V ECUFirst  1 2 3 4 5 >  Last
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VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

 How To Get DLI on Stock 20V ECU Reply  Edit


EDIT
2008's Coil On Plug DLI Solution Thread Update---> http://forums.club4ag.com/zero...age=3
EDIT

Ok, before I start on how my 20v version was setup, let me show you a an example of a pic I saw from japan that piqued my interest in Ultra's MDI Direct Ignition System for jdm 16v bluetop 4ag

Notice anything strange? The distributor has no leads coming off of it! Ignition is coming from a pair of coil packs...

that look sorta like these

this is the kit (an older version) that comes with a new igniter, an FSD (firing sequence determination) unit, wires, a 3 wire hall effect sensor, hall effect shutter (2x), 2 coil packs, nuts screws and a shutter alignment tool

heres the newer kit that looks a little different, but does the same exact thing

heres the diagram from Ultra. A Hall effect shutter replaces the rotor inside the bluetop distributor and the sensor is premade to fit inside. The idea is to retain the rpm and sync signals (Ne, G) that exist within the distributor so proper ECU functionality still exists. But this kit is adding a new digital signal (from hall effect shutter) that a separate module (FSD) interprets which then sends it to the new ignitor which fires the coil packs based on the ECU's own ignition signal (IGt) and spits back the appropriate confirmation (IGf). Whew. The wiring all plugs directly into the JDM bluetop harness. The new ignitor is powered directly from the battery and there is an extra lead that allows for aftermarket tach to be used if desired...

heres where the problem lies. The shutter (white) doesn't fit or work inside the 20v distributor

So the easiest way to mount it properly is to put it on the front 20v exhaust cam gear. RS Hamada has a kit

they took the direct route and modified the shutter slightly so that it bolts onto the front exhaust cam gear instead of a bluetop distributor, and a bracket holds the hall effect sensor in place using the holes the FWD engine mounts uses. it is crucial that the space between the sensor and shutter is kept consistent


Another company called MP (motor project) Azlead offers another kit. For the shutter, they machined a new 2x shutter out of what I think is aluminum and made a fancy bracket for the hall effect sensor too. The kit comes with a plate to cover the dizzy

This is what I bought used off of yahoo japan

Which I installed:


Now, the kit was made for 16v and bolts/plugs right into the engine/harness. I didn't know what wire did which and I did not have a full jdm bluetop wiring diagram with connectors or pinouts. I emailed ppl from Australia and Japan for help and assistance.

Then whilst looking on japanese ae86 websites i found this wiring diagram: http://img.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg

...and had a friend translate the wire colors and whatever else was pertinent:

This translated diagram gave me the original jdm ae86 harness plug and how to splice it into a 20v's harness! To match up with the DLI kit's harness plug i found that a Zenki wiper motor connector fits PERFECTLY! (wiper motor connector left, MDI harnss right)

Basically you cut the 5 pin ignitor connector off the AE111 or AE101 's engine harness and wire in the wiper motor's female connector appropriately. Only one wire is left over and you do not need it, it was supposed to go to the OEM coil negative, but that will be disabled with this kit.

Heres some helpful info if your going to go this route on your 20V:
1) It is important that your distributor has or will not be moved. 10 degrees BTDC can only be checked (i think) when the engine was running
2) alignment of the hall effect shutter in front was a hit or miss thing for me and vis0n (barry). He used his ears to find the sweet spot based on where my distributor was aligned. It will need to be toyed with when your going to fire it up for the first time
3) jdm 16v bluetop MDI kits are available new in Japan and easily attained from Ultra, but the adaptor kit for the 20v is rare and the shops don't like to do business internationally.

I guess I can take some measurements of the halleffect shutter and have someone fab up a new one along with a sensor bracket, but my car is my daily driver and I can't afford to have downtime at the moment.


Let me know if you have any questions

EDIT:
Terms:
MDI Multiple Discharge Ignition
DLI Distributor-Less Ignition
CDI Capacitive Discharge Ignition

Heres another japanese setup using the system I have


Modified by VitriumGTS at 11:06 AM 1/12/2008


Modified by VitriumGTS at 11:13 AM 1/12/2008


Modified by VitriumGTS at 9:10 PM 4/25/2010

Modified by VitriumGTS at 12:35 AM 3/21/2011



My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.


NIXmx1
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Las Vegas NV

  » Reply  Edit


I was waiting for this post. Sticky this please!



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choco
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  » Reply  Edit


Thanks for that, how much are the kits do you know??
VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

 Re: (choco) » Reply  Edit


Ultra's MDI Direct Ignition System kit for the jdm 16v bluetop is about $600 bucks brand new. I believe Hiro (WR BLUE) is selling the same kit on the classifieds right now for $500?

The MDI kit with 20v adapter I got goes for $1200 dollars brand new, but I bought for $700 used.

MP Azlead's product page:
http://www.mp-azlead.jp/product/4ag20v/pro01.html


Modified by VitriumGTS at 6:19 AM 1/17/2008



My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
AK 47




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911 posts [97%]

  » Reply  Edit


soo. why is this better than dizzy relocation kit?

good write up btw

smog7




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378 posts [90%]
santa maria ca

  » Reply  Edit


somewhat of a noobish question, but are their any other benefits to this kit other then just a better spark?



1990 st185 celica all trac
-omar
VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

  » Reply  Edit


AK47, smog7-
Better than a dizzy relocation kit because the dizzy doesn't need to be relocated. Just the distributor base stays where it is. No need for firewall hammering, cam gear cover stays as is, works really well with stock ECU, and you have more freedom where to mount the coil packs





My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
kitsune
There is no charge for AWESOME

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3808 posts [100%]
Seattle WA

  » Reply  Edit


Nice write up.

Didn't knew that the kit was so expensive

Mike

VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

  » Reply  Edit


i found some pics i tought I would share

Adpated for 20V:

Pics of jdm map 16v setup and how it sits in the dizzy:





My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
kitsune
There is no charge for AWESOME

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3808 posts [100%]
Seattle WA

  » Reply  Edit


Looks awesome.

Thanks for all your great research and work.

You should make a video of your car and motor running.

Mike

mrfuzzy




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1513 posts [100%]
Did you turn it off and back on

  » Reply  Edit


Do you have to have the distributor or can you plug it with something like what mr john is going to make?

Modified by mrfuzzy at 8:44 PM 7/24/2008



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VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

  » Reply  Edit


yep. the base of the distributor is there with a custom cover on it. The engine still needs a crank and cam angle sensor to function

i would love to make a video of my engine in action but i dont have a digicam with an audio function!

Modified by VitriumGTS at 10:21 AM 7/25/2008



My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
Sam_Q
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Australia vic

  » Reply  Edit


I am running the stock ecu and have whats known as a DLI converter, it takes the signal from the stock ecu and splits to it run two coils instead of one



My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

Jousi
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Seinajoki,Finland

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


Where did you get this converter?
VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


ah, the famed DLI converter from Anthony Kellam? Some of us Yanks sent him money for these units and never got them, which started up a fire storm on the forums both here and in australia...needless to say, most of us would rather forget him and that product...

If I recall, you needed either a 2JZ ignitor, a kouki 4agze ignitor, or a pair of 7mgte ignitors, and his custom converter to make it work

Jousi
I got it from yahoo japan auctions



My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
Jousi
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Seinajoki,Finland

 Re: (VitriumGTS) » Reply  Edit


Yes, i also find out that he was producing those converters but it seems like they sell more happily standalone ecu than a converter.
I got 4agze coils and ignitor, just wanna find that magic box
Sam_Q
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Australia vic

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VitriumGTS: I am absolutely shocked... I have never heard a bad thing about this guy till now. Mine isnt a Kaizen converter but one of a very small batch by a guy that works for Motec ECU's. Mine has been customised further so now its pretty much a one off. It uses dumb ignitors off two Magnas and some generic off the shelf set of coil-packs.

Heres a pic of mine with my previous engine:

I have been told a place called Yager performance made such a module now I can understand why no-one would want to buy anything off anyone over here.



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s-86.com

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Ogip20v




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Cavite Phils

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


are you using sotck ecu on your DLI set-up with 20v engine?
Sam_Q
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579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: (Ogip20v) » Reply  Edit


well sorta, it was a stock ECU and I did run it with this DLI converter but it had problems one day after I messed with something so I went back to the maker and he decided to not take the signal off the crank angle sensor and instead took two wires directly off the back of the ecu's circuit board.

So the proper answer is its working off a modified OEM ecu.



My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

Jousi
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Seinajoki,Finland

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


Could this friend of yours produce more of those?

I have been trying to get contact to all companies what i know that have been producing those but got no answers. Exept Jager Performance, cause they dont have email and its night time here while there are working hours so i havenīt manage to get answer when i been calling in the morning (9-10h time difference), gotta wake up some night to make a call.
Pass Racing answered to my questions but they sold whole standalone system and wiring.
I am looking for setup witch use silvertop own dizzy signal like yours.

Sam_Q
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579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: (Jousi) » Reply  Edit


no he doesnt make them anymore. Apart from Yager perfomance try this place:

http://www.mmsport.com.au/ContactUs.php

but ask them who makes the DLI kits for them because I dont know who does it.



My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

Jousi
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Seinajoki,Finland

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


Ok, thank you very much for the info! I will told here if i get some results.
Jousi
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Seinajoki,Finland

 Re: (Jousi) » Reply  Edit


No luck with this Dli converter. Yager performance never answer and leaving a message would be waste of time cause no one will be ready to call back to Finland

I have done some research and i think that could not be so difficult to made by an good electric-mech.

If G signal (cam position) is taken from OEM dizzy and use it to decide which coil of two fires on its time and IGT signal from ecu to fire coil in its time. Using 4A-GZE ignitor could be best cause it could send verifieng code (IGF) back to ecu and it will be happy. So the device what can do that "flip flop" from coil pattern to other on right time is the answer, so i have been telling to my self. Correct if i am wrong.
If there are somewhere to find a diagram/shematics of transistors and other stuff which used with these, it could be DIY for every one, i think

Sam_Q
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579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

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that sucks, did you also try sending merridian motorsport an email?

What about an ignition only ecu? that way you could run toyota echo individual coilpacks



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vr-4turbo




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tulsa ok

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although its not a 20v this guy did a dli conversion on a 3sge mr2.
http://www.lovehorsepower.com/...r.htm

Jousi
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Seinajoki,Finland

 Re: (vr-4turbo) » Reply  Edit


Yes, good article, but it was not working compeltely well. Writer says in the end that he will try to get solution for problems and show the diagram, but it was updatet in 2002. But i gotta try to put a email and ask if he after all get i working.
VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

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ok, back from the dead.

thought I'd show this to ppl:

looks like Ultra is still making stuff for the 4ag and they finally combined the MDI ignitor with the FSD (firing seq. determination unit) into one convienent package! pretty freaking awesome if you ask me

new model number 9923 MDI-R
http://www.nagaidenshi.co.jp/I...shtml

if it still relies on that hall effect wheel then 20v's should be able to use it as well



My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
Sam_Q
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Australia vic

  » Reply  Edit


sounds good, might be expensive though

edit: just saw the cost in the title ....$1000USD!!!






My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

Jousi
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Seinajoki,Finland

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


...And after some researching and testing, I finally running with DLI. And spend only 120 USD (and some beer) for it! Just need find places for coils, make permanent wiring and move sensor bracket under the cam pulley.


domi
mod



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St. Ann MO

 Re: (NIXmx1) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by NIXmx1 »
I was waiting for this post. Sticky this please!

Your wish is my command.



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