This meeting has been postponed to February 25th (MONDAY)
So Keep the Voices Coming!!!

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Modified by Moto-P at 6:21 AM 2/21/2008

Modified by Moto-P at 6:21 AM 2/21/2008

I also think what makes cars famous and iconic is the “trend”. ”He or she has it so therefore it must be a good car! or My friend has one and its cool and good, therefore I want one too. It’s the trend that make a car iconic too. One example: When the Scion XB first rolled out I was thinking to myself ”What an ugly car. It’s like a box on wheels!” This was my reception of this car. Later on that year I started seeing more and more of this car. It’s not until I rode one that I started to appreciate its design and look. This car may be small, but its interior is HUGE! It lacks power on the HP department, but its spacious cabin and good gas consumption compensates for that.

The AE86 on the other hand wouldn’t have received its recognition if it wasn’t for Japanese anime and drifting sports. Back in my era (early 1990s) the most sought after “race” car are the Hondas and Acuras. I’ve never even heard of the Toyota Corolla GTS back then nor the sports of drifting. The only sports back then are those illegal drag racing or going to those Import Drag events. Also everyone in my school has either the Civics, Accords, or the Integras. There’s no such thing as the “Hachi Roku”, “AE86”, “RWD” etc. It was an unappreciated car. It’s not until I started watching Initial D that made me give the Toyota Corolla GTS another look. With the introduction of Driting sports to North American shores, the AE86 become even more famous. Now any RWD cars including the AE86 are sought after.

So with all this talk, where am I headed with this? I think cars are not base loosely on looks and appearance alone. The new Mustangs don’t look too appealing to me yet people still buy it because it’s a Mustang. Is an American icon and it’s a muscle car. The Scion XB isn’t the grand daddy of wagons and definitely won’t get an award for best looking car and yet people still buy it and modify them you see them almost everyday. The AE86 on the other hand isn’t the latest technological feat in our present time nor have the look of a sports car that can beat a Ferrari or so. It’s an aged old relic that up until now is still surviving and striving to be alive yet people sought after them because they saw its performance on one of the drift events and/or Takumi Fujiwara beat every car with this vehicle. Whatever the mindset is the point there is that a car needs to be famous in order to get some recognition. In Toyota’s case, they can design any new sport compact car they want, but if lacks recognition then it won’t fly. They need to concentrate on their marketing. If their intended target are the newer generation of drivers out there, then that’s where need to focus their marketing. What makes a Ferrari infamous to racing and luxury? They’re expensive that only a handful of buyers can buy them and they’re known and recognized throughout the car racing history. If we go back in time and subdued Ferrari’s intent to make a pure sports car, then nobody today would know the car nor relate it to something luxurious and beautiful.

Thanks goto you for sharing a personal opportunity with your fellow Club4ag.com members. I only hope that I can contribute positive and constructive insight to the topic at hand.

From my personal perspective, the Hachi Roku has garnered my affections and has enamored me because of how it can and often times represents ideally how man should be: humble in character and demeanor and yet capable of unexpected wonders when called upon and some times at its own detriment.

For me, the 86 has become my ideal car and has replaced my childhood fantasies of lamborghinis, panteras & ferraris. It is like a favorite pair of jeans that carry me through the hardest of work days, times of enjoyment and with a little care and cleaning, fashionable functions that keep me un-pretentious and ready at a moments notice.

Cars such as these have given "greatness" a practical place in everyday life by making it attainable by the average man.

Sorry for a seemingly over-simplified view. I believe though that a lot can be said with a few choice words.

Regards,
jonas v

MUST: light, nimble, rwd, develope-able (difference between a stock AE85 and any well modded car....) certain degree of utilitarian capability FORM follows function..... NOT the other way around!

NOT: any engine other than a small inline 4. NO BOXER engines!!!

KNOW your market... design it, build it, develop it, The AE86 has been WELL supported for 20+ years........ RE-build MODEL loyalty, not just brand loyalty!!! For example... Mustang and Corvette owners.... keep buying them... because although they change.... they don't change!!!!

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/ USE it!

:thumbup: :thumbup:

could not said it better my self. you hit the nail right in the head.

they did the mini. The mustang got done with that 65 style or so. Camaro is on the way. Next should be a toyota corolla gts (based on the ae86). I would never buy a new car in my life... never (why be in debth with something that the value will depreciate fast) . But if they ever remake the 86, I would buy one from the dealer

I think the success of the AE86 is because its what you make it. The factory car isn't much to brag about in any way, but the work, money, and time that the owner puts into the car is what determines the results.

So don't make a car that car easily beat a new Civic Si, or SRT-4, make a car that can be, by a home mechanic, modified to beat a new Civic Si or other. Don't make the car so loaded with tech options, wiring, and crazy special features that the "do it yourself" mechanic is to scared to touch the car. When Mine's has a hard time tuning the new GT-R what does that mean for the home mechanic or the aftermarket?

Obviously in this age they must have modern safety features such as antilock brakes and traction control... but making them less intrusive is key... keeping airbag systems lightweight and still safe... crash bumpers lightweight but still exceeding safety requirements... and giving value for the dollar. It's alot to ask, but it's whats needed when everyone is stepping up and attempting to build the best car for the least ammount of money. Cutting edge designs and features will obviously also be expected. I don't expect for toyota to rebuild the old rwd GTS chassis... I would be dissapointed. I would much rather see the new awd/turbo hatches from europe come stateside. I think that would be great to have another awd/turbo contender offering from toyota to go up against the Mitsubishi Evos and Subarus. I am a great fan of the toyota rally cars.s
I don't think you could ever intentionally build a car that will be loved for decades to come. But if you build a car with alot of effort and attention to detail, and really put your heart and soul into making the best car you can, people won't beable to help but really love the car. Cars built for compromise like minivans and station wagons will never get praise. Unusual cars, focused cars, cars with unusual design features that are tasteful will stick around... will be collected by enthusiasts. What would it take to bring back affordable/capable sports cars like the supra and MR2s? Inexpensive pure sport compacts like the rwd GTS corollas?
I think one thing Toyota did right with the MR2 and MR-S was a compact mid-engined car. Perhaps sticking to that path would help the make stick out. Toyota makes great mid-engined cars. Imagine a mid-engined, awd turbo sports car offering from Toyota... that would be way ahead if it's time for japanese imports.

Look how well Audi's R8 did... simple, mid engine, rwd V8. With a little homework Toyota could easily develope a more capable car. I am confident of that.

Modified by GumballF355 at 7:31 PM 2/12/2008

something built by enthusiasts that embodies that special thing that makes cars more than just metal pieces bolted together

it's good to hear toyota has a mind proven as powerful behind this

My 2c:

Lightweight (by today's standards, that's probably around 2800lbs).

Rear wheel drive.

Inexpensive (to properly compete, sub 20k. Making it sub 15k is even better). Perhaps even offer a trim with manual windows, minimal sound deadening, and no other power options. This could be the 15k trim, and probably the best seller. There are few cars that can still sell minus power windows, and power mirrors, but a lightweight sports coupe would be one of them.

Twin cam, high revving with toyota's latest variable valve timing technology. The engine doesn't need to be high horsepower. Let me reiterate that, it doesn't NEED to have big power numbers to compete. As long as it revs high, sings, and isn't derived from a "torque/truck" engine, we're good. The myth that Americans want "large displacement torquey engines" only applies to American cars. There's a reason why we buy Japanese, and this is one of the reasons.

Create a competition reputation. The AE86 is legendary in Group A, the engine was legendary in Formula Atlantic, and is also legendary in D1. it can be again, with the right package.

What do you know, I just listed everything that made the old AE86 a success, and also the reasons why we love the car so much.

Also Moto, perhaps an idea: invite these people to the next big Club4AG meet that you're putting together. If that doesn't show the level of enthusiasm that exists for the car, only a ride with me at horsethief mile will!

Basically a strip down version of the rs200, the headlights already reminds you of a Levin.

Car should definitely be a ‘tuner’ style car. Maybe modeled after more like the Mitsubishi EVO rather than the WRX. (in terms of capturing the tuner market) car should have good road racing potential to help it go fast at time attacks. This will open US aftermarket manufactures eyes to producing parts to help turn the wheels in the ‘tuner industry’ and that will help spread the marketability of the car. If everyone is doing stories, build-ups, and TV shows about the car, it will help make the car popular.

In order for the car to eventually sell well, the car probably should have a strong drive train. Maybe if a later model is planned to have an optional forced induction model, the related drive train components will be designed. This will make project managers of companies decide to make aftermarket parts for the car. If the car is to weak, they will think its along the lines of the ae86, weak, slow, etc.

design the suspension for good camber gain through out the suspension stroke. dont have the 'darty' feel of suspension like the mr2/mrs. have suspension more like evo or s2000.

Cars should all be a hard top. Older buyers could purchase for the performance (like the MX mazdas) and younger crowd could purchase the car for the looks and tune ability.

If the car anything near a s2000ish sedan, it should do pretty well.
leave things that cost major bucks out of the equation.
making deals with brake manufactures like brembo or some type of company will be a good selling point.
just like how people buy chevy 6.6 dura max because it has an allison transmission.

much more to say but i dont feel like typing it.

1.8 - 2.2 liters(na or supercharged)
140 - 190 whp
rwd
balanced weight ratio
fairly light(2400-2800lbs)
trd support

most of all... AFFORDABLE!

if there was a toyota with those specs i would buy it no matter how it looked lol..
i own an ae86, it cant get any worse!

A 2.0 liter DOHC motor will give just enough torque and revability. Like Chodog also said it should be able to modifiable by anyone. The shadetree mechanic should be able to work on the car if he/she wants to. Minimalist is the key for this type of car.

But the most important aspect has to be the fun to drive factor. The AE86 is popular now not just because of Anime and Drifting, but because the car was/is fun to drive. The anime and drifting people chose this car because of this aspect. The car was simply fun. It can do anything you want it to do, go anywhere you want it to go, be anything you want it to be. Keep the car simple and fun and it will have a strong following.

Just to add something else, make the car attractive. Not to disrespect Toyota, but they currently don't have anything that looks very attractive. Take the Camry for example; it looks ok, but if you look at the Australian TRD version, it looks superb. Hope this helps.

Would not necesarily need these features, but they would seriously better the car:
1. Aluminum engine block, vvti, larger bore than stroke for rev-ability and fun to drive factor
2. Multilink suspension, look to BMW and the Mini for ideas, their suspensions are ultra strong and light with excellent geometry.
3. TRD parts like LSD, turbo kit, brake upgrades, like F division of Lexus.
4. Angular styling, get away from pillowcar modern Toyota look for once. It could refer back to the 80's roots of the car while still being modern and innovative.
5. Strong drivetrain that can handle a bit of engine tuning and track use.

I love the soul and reliability of older Toyotas, however the company has lost sight of the soul it once had. The new cars are still stone-reliable, but it seems like every single new Toyota that comes out is built for the masses. With all of the company's success, couldn't you find it in your budget to finance one or two exciting new cars for people that love to drive? Gain back the heart of enthusiasts!

Thats how i define my car,
Toyota keep up the good work and bring back the legend

"I don't have to worry about unintended acceleration. I own an SR5." -- Yuri

EMAILblazeUNDERSCOREwonATyahooDOTcom

My suggestion to the young engineers, is to head over to the Toyota museum or warehouse. Take that 100% stock AE86 or MR2 for a drive. Take it for a spin around the city in heavy traffic, hop on the highway rowing through the gears. Perhaps borrow a lightly hopped-up version afterwards, and go for a few hot laps around a track. (Time to return that favor Tsuchiya-san

Yes, by today's standards the AE86's original engine and suspension is archaic, but if they can feel the same attractive emotion that we do, our message is delivered.

They're the engineers, so I'll leave the calculations and wrenching to them.

Quote, originally posted by project trueno »

My suggestion to the young engineers, is to head over to the Toyota museum or warehouse. Take that 100% stock AE86 or MR2 for a drive. Take it for a spin around the city in heavy traffic, hop on the highway rowing through the gears. Perhaps borrow a lightly hopped-up version afterwards, and go for a few hot laps around a track. (Time to return that favor Tsuchiya-san They're the engineers, so I'll leave the calculations and wrenching to them.

+1, I definately agree to that... Theres just something about them, perhaps going for a spin in one, drive it for a week or a few weeks will help them understand what its really about.

I'd even let them come out and 'steal' my car for a month or two. If it helps the community and/or the design team / engineers I'm all for it.

toyota needs to build a car that supports the aftermarket. take honda for example. all their engines are swappable between platforms with so many iterations of one engine there is a HUGE aftermarket.

that aside, what is the deal with building motors that do not allow the aftermarket to highly modify the internals of the engine. the 2ZZ-GE was a HUGE flop. with the cylinder bore spacing being so close that the top of the cylinder bores had cutouts for the intake valves.

if Hyundai can build a high performance budget sports car that is SIMPLE and gets the job done. why can't a billion dollar corporation get one little thing right.

RWD, FWD, or AWD, it doesn't matter. GET IT RIGHT. your car will not live without aftermarket support, unless you plan on building geo metro's you're whole lives.

the ford mustang is a legend because it has looks and performance. on top of that ford provided a great engine in which you could do so much to.

let me re-iterate two things.
first, build engines with good cylinder bore spacing so the aftermarket can bore and sleeve the engine to make real power.
second, do something with your head designs. these things don't flow worth junk.

now tell me what is currently the #1 toyota engine for building and racing modern day? THE 2.4L CAMRY ENGINE!!! why? because its strong and comes in so many cars. a freaking camry engine!!!

9500RPM Club...4AGE

wtb: AE86 16v intake box and arm.

LOTS of parts for sale, tools, AE101, AE86, jubride, RSR, TRD:
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=58665

I would like to see a small, lightweight, rwd, high revving 2.0l 4 cylinder. But then i would hope that would be the begining i would like to see the return of the celica alltrac also.

RWD
5 speed manual as an option
at LEAST 90ish WHP
N/A
New age corolla Gt-s (TURENO/LEVIN)

im sure thats the base of pretty much what everyone wants.

TRD JAPAN AE86 parts list- http://www.trdparts.jp/english/list_ae86.html

I cant think of a 4 cylinder Toyota engine, that is currently in production, that can compete with Honda's 4 cylinders with performance, ability to upgrade, and fuel efficiency. Looking at current Toyota's 4 cylinder engines sold in the US, the fastest one would be... the Corolla XRS 2.4 with 158hp. Fuel efficiency is 22/30. The Civic SI is a 2.0 197hp with 21/29 MPG. For 1 MPG less, I can get 39 more horsepower, higher revs, an extra gear, and better looks. I bet the SI responds better to aftermarket upgrades as well.

Toyota already knows how to make a great RWD, whether mid-engine or front engine, that is a thrill to drive. They already know how to market their vehicles to the younger generations, as seen with Scions and even the Yaris.

It just seems that all of Toyota performance goals are directed towards Lexus vehicles, that are 6cyl. Buying a Lexus is hard enough, modifying it and customizing it is near impossible for a 16 year old and even pretty difficult for some 30 year olds.

Start with a great motor. Engineer something revolutionary that takes from tradition and practicality. Everything else should fall into place.

And a 6 speed couldn't hurt.

Neil