So far I see many suggestions of a new car. But aren't some of these are off the main idea. This is to show what make a an icon car.

OF COURSE we want a great Compact Sports Car
Its just that we have some many desire of of a car like the AE86. It was a not a rear wheel drive car that was a 2 seater like most cars are.

The only thing that is close to that format is the BMWs 3 seris,Lexus IS cars,etc. But these cars are more in a different class and price wise. That was made the AE86, AWll, etc very speical cause it was to its own class. Im pretty sure Keiichi Tsuchiya stated that from Best Motoring long time ago.

Lets face it. IT been done before about the enviroment, fuel storage, and other chrisis during the past. Toyota and other manufactuers are well aware of what we want for a long time. a repeat of history

To the younger generation engineers need to remember what is a SPORTS CAR vs a SPORTY CAR. There is a difference of a cars identify.

A SPORTS CARS is a SPORTS car.
A Sporty Car is a car with add-ons that imitates a sports car.

I truly believe what makes a Sports car is the chassis. You can never change it no matter what.You can swap engines, suspension, etc. But It will go over the original design of the car.

Toyota will have to put it in a devision of ether Toyota, Lexus, or Scion brand name. IT will ether be in the Scion devision or the Toyota devision name. I recommend in the Toyota name than the Scion name. The Scion brand tends to get a off base towards the show car type than a sports cars. Yet i seen many cars these days are trying to be a sports car and yet fails. Just adding a Supercharger is not going to be much of a icon.
But Scions cars are doing a good job what it was marketed for.

As a suggestion as stated some others. I think They should experience stock cars, Sports Cars, to modified cars to get the feeling of the difference. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

A Sports cars is what it is VERSUS what it has. you can add so many after market parts to a Camry and it would be just be a fast Camry, IT would go against what was it originally made for.

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as everyone here I'm looking for simple elements in a fine N/A sports coupe
i don't know the factory budget for this concept sports car but i give my best shot!

light weight front engine RWD with LSD.

young end users these days have the ability to buy cars up to $30K (avrage working 20 to 35 years old) but wont have much money spending on pushing more power and reliability.

with the new standards in size and safety cars are heavy these days, they lack the original feel of a true sport car! i think the key its to come out with a small sized, light under 2400Lbs, engine wise should be up o 2.0L DOCH high revving N/A over 200Bhp.
sport FR with a rear independent (3link) suspension, simple LSD and ABS would be great!

focusing on chasey rigidity and TRD high performance parts such as OEM adjustable camber plates, stiffer suspension would make this concept car almost perfect i think, that could be the #1 new world class sport N/A coupe.

they have enough data and racing background to beat today`s best light weight sports cars such as Honda S2000, Lotus etc...

have to mention the excellent job on being the #1 seller in USA as well here...anyhow Toyota&TRD could step up and win the title for the best N/A sports coupe category, they simpley have everything takes to do it, so may as well just do it.

THANKS FOR THE CHANCE!!!!

Everyone has been spot on so far, but I'd like to re-iterate, just to feel like I've contributed

I love my AE86 because it's lightweight, quick around the corners and good on gas. For me it's the perfect sports car and I would not hesitate to purchase a new one if it came out with similar specs:

As a sports coupe:
as close to 1000kg as possible (or less) the lighter the better
RWD (obviously)
firm suspension (at 22 years old my car still handles great)
high revving small efficient engine
5/6sp manual (maybe a really tall 6th for better fuel efficiency on the highway / higher top speed at the track)
LSD OPTION!

As a car:
CHEAP (do whatever you need to)
Reliable (again my AE86 is 22 and it's my daily driver)
Looks don't really concern me, the Scion tC looks great, I'm sure you can figure it out.
Safe (air bags are great, but can ABS/TC be optional?)
Seating for 4 (not too big, the old AE86 is a great size for me and my friends)
Everything should be an option to minimize weight if desired
IT DOESN'T NEED TO FIT GOLF CLUBS IN THE TRUNK (I can fold the seats down for that)

I think that covers everything, I hope it helps in some way.

I may be late to the topic, but I NEED to throw my thoughts in, even if others have already covered it.

Lately I've been looking for a car as a daily for myself. I'm tired of driving a borrowed fullsize van everywhere while I save, and I can't stand driving a FWD car. I'm seriously saddened by the lack of affordable RWD 4 cylinder cars.

If I worked for Toyota, I would want to build a sort of retro-futuristic version of the RA21 Celicas. Retro is not dead, sorry. People yearn for the cars of yesterday because the cars of today lack the same sort of style and simplicity. Look at how the Mustang sells.

I would build a RWD, 4 cylinder car, with as few options as possible to save on weight and cost. Make it a 4 seater and a decent performance car with an emphasis on handling rather than outright speed- let the aftermarket handle that if need be. Throw a drivetrain you already have into it to make it more affordable. Manual crank windows, manual seats, manual steering. I don't care if it has a rubber floormat instead of a carpet to make it cheaper. And then let people option it up from there. Make the radio and air conditioning an option. Power anything should be an option. That way, people can build themselves a car. Maybe that's not possible anymore, but bringing that back would be a revalation.

I want a '70s looking Celica that drives like a modern car, and doesn't have any of the luxuries. And people who need those luxuries could option it up.

I think the FJ cruiser isn't as popular as it should be, because it's laden with far too much luxury crap. That's not what the original was about- and that's where it went wrong. Don't make that mistake. There's a lot of people out there who don't need extra options. What the hell am I going to do with navigation when I know where I'm going? What good is A/C when it's cold as hell most of the time? I have windows and hands, I can roll it down if I need it. I've been doing it my whole life.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd be in the Toyota dealer immediately if such a car existed.

I just want a simple, cool looking RWD 4 cylinder car.

Also- would it be too much to ask to consider tall people? I'm not the only guy on earth who's 6'5". I could fit into most cars if the seat tracks would just roll a few inches further backwards. Honestly, I'd have bought a Miata if I could fit in it.

Good luck in your meeting! And please pull for the common car enthusiast!

1. Cheap.

2. Handling over outright speed

3. Front engine, rear wheel drive 4 cylinder

4. Easy to maintain and work on.

5. Use prexisting drivetrains

6. Make EVERYTHING optional, so we can buy a stripped base model for fun

7. Retro styling would be cool. Like a RA21 or RA23 Celica, TE27 Corolla, AE86, etc. Give it character. THAT's what makes cars classics.

8. Make seat move far enough back for tall drivers

9. Optional LSD.

congrats moto.

Making a car that sells to the masses is not hard for Toyota. They have gotten very good at doing that. Making a car that brings back the Toyota enthusist will involve sticking to a dedicated setup that the enthusist will respect (I.E. RWD, high-reving engine, lightweight).

A car that will capture the soul of the car enthusist is simply a fun car to drive. A car that when your even think about it puts a smile on your face. A car that doesn't numb you to the driving experience.

Someone put in quite well earlier. Stick with a formula that has worked well in the past. All the cars that have cult following don't mess with their basic formula, Corvettes, Mustangs, 911's, Camaros, Miatas, VW GTI's. These cars have maintained a basic formula that has been evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

Most people will already want to buy a small affordable Toyota. When you throw in the fun factor and the potiential for more, thats when the enthusists will follow.

On a final note. I think it would be best for Toyota to market this car as a TOYOTA heritage car, not a Scion or Lexus, the enthusist will not connect with it otherwise.

93 Custom Toyota std cad mini
87 mild custom MX73 Cressida
85 AW11 MR2
81 TE75 Corolla SR5 Sport Coupe modified
73 TE27 Corolla

1. Make it lightweight 2,000-2,400 pounds.

2. High-revving, over-built, 6,500+ rpm turbo 2.0 (plus or minus) liter four cylinder with 220+ hp with a rod-to-stroke ratio close to 1.75.

3. Limited-slip rearwheel drive.

4. Connected quality feel to the steering, suspension brakes, 6-speed manual transmission, and clutch.

5. Ergonomic and well-thought -out with a front and center tachometer and real oil, temperature, voltage and turbo gauges.

6. Recaro seat option.

7. Please put handling, feel and styling at the top of the list.

Style after the 1973 Celica.

Keep the price down around $19,000 by offering a base car with no options, but do offer a/c, sunroof, fender flairs, power windows, etc. as options.

Make the platform rigid, and the suspension, engine, brakes, etc. easy to work on and easy to upgrade.

Again keep the weight down.

And to be nice to the guys who work on their own cars... consider parts that need regular replacement when you dress the engine (ie my DD Ford Focus you need to pull out the RF drive axle to replace the alternator, and my dad's explorer needed a new EGR valve, and the entire intake manifold had to come off to get to the bolts)... Make it easy for us to work on our cars. That is why I love my AE86

To make a car that will last 10, 20 years from now, besides all the design particulars and so on and so forth, I think what toyota needs to ask themselves is, 'will this appeal to the grassroots-motorist types'. It is not the average consumer, the business executive, the hipster or the musclehead that select cars like the AE86. The grassroots people are the ones that will live and breath their cars, and they are the ones that carry it down into history.

Make sure the whole design team consists of car enthusiasts. If each one of them doesn't read five or more enthusiast car magazines a month, they shouldn't be on the team. Non-motorheads will only serve to dilute the result. The car has to have soul and be made by "car people" with a passion for cars.

Have the design team drive an Integra Type-R, CRX Si, M3, WRX, Evo, Civic Si, Mini S, Honda S2000, and Porsche 911 to let them see for themselves what it is about each of these cars that makes them great.

Make sure that the car delivers as much value as honestly possible. You can make the best car in the world but if you price it above your intended target audience it's not going to sell. Keep the price down by starting with a stripped model and then let people add their own options as they see fit. Keep in mind that once you get into the $25,000 range you start getting into rally car territory.

I'm not sure I like saying this, but maybe also consider a four door version of the car. The Integra GSR pulled it off and it might help sales a bit.

Make it address all of the senses...

Sound

Make it howl like a ticked-off grizzly bear under hard acceleration. My WRX sounds great when you step into the throttle. Ferrari's, Mitsubishi FTO's, Acura GSR's and muscle cars all have a distinct sound that exudes power.

Sight

We're tired of plain vanilla cars. Take a look at the old Escort Cosworth rally cars, the Chrysler Conquest, or Porsche 944. They had fender flares that made them masculine. They had attitude. The Porsche 911 drips with sensuality.

The Ford GT (or GT40 for that matter) also exhibits passion but in a different way. It's aggressive but purposeful looking in a race car kind of way.

The Ferrari Testarossa was audacious with it's straked sides. It demanded attention.

Skip the vanilla and give me a banana split.

Touch

Make the shifter shift precisely and easily like a Honda. The car should feel like an extension of the driver. The pedals should be set up for easy heel and toeing. Sloppy steering, brakes that grab or turn to mush, or a transmission that feels like rubber will only turn people off. Everything should be ergonomic, easy to reach, use, and find in the dark.

Purpose build the car for enthusiasts. Don't sell it like a boring Camry because it's a different audience. Camry owners want something that's comfortable, reliable, and that will hold its value over time.

Enthusiasts want fun, something that's 'chuckable'. Something that can be pushed right up to its limits but is easy to recover if those limits are surpassed. They want to become one with the car. If you keep one question in mind, "Will this help the enthusiast to become one with his car?" this will help to keep you on track.

A drivers car should handle precisely like a scalpel. It should be able to take repeated hard stops easily and in a controlled manner. Give it enough power to make your passenger smile when you hit the gas and to make passing easy. It should have enough power to bring the rear of the car around to tighten the line in sharp low speed auto-cross corners. A 0-60 time in the mid to high 6 second range should do it.

For some great insight into what makes great drivers cars send the design team to an auto-cross competition and have them drive the cars mentioned above.

Talk to and survey people/drivers at the auto-cross. Talk to the editors and readers of Grass Roots Motorsports Magazine. They're very friendly. I have a feeling you'll get an idea real quick as to what it takes to create a classic drivers car.

In short, the car should be involving, but not dangerous. Precise but not brutal. Predictable at the limit, but comfortable enough that it won't shake the fillings out of your dates teeth.

Most important, it should be fun, reliable, relatively inexpensive to fuel and maintain. Helping tuners and backyard mechanics out by making the engine easy to work on and interchangeable with other bigger Toyota engines is also a big step in the right direction.

Modified by CelicaGTS at 9:21 PM 2/21/2008

Make sure the whole design team consists of car enthusiasts. If each one of them doesn't read five or more enthusiast car magazines a month, they shouldn't be on the team. Non-motorheads will only serve to dilute the result. The car has to have soul and be made by "car people" with a passion for cars.

Have the design team drive an Integra Type-R, CRX Si, M3, WRX, Evo, Civic Si, Mini S, Honda S2000, and Porsche 911 to let them see for themselves what it is about each of these cars that makes them great.

Make sure that the car delivers as much value as honestly possible. You can make the best car in the world but if you price it above your intended target audience it's not going to sell. Keep the price down by starting with a stripped model and then let people add their own options as they see fit. Keep in mind that once you get into the $25,000 range you start getting into rally car territory.

I'm not sure I like saying this, but maybe also consider a four door version of the car. The Integra GSR pulled it off and it might help sales a bit.

Make it address all of the senses...

Sound

Make it howl like a ticked-off grizzly bear under hard acceleration. My WRX sounds great when you step into the throttle. Ferrari's, Mitsubishi FTO's, Acura GSR's and muscle cars all have a distinct sound that exudes power.

Sight

We're tired of plain vanilla cars. Take a look at the old Escort Cosworth rally cars, the Chrysler Conquest, or Porsche 944. They had fender flairs that made them masculine. They had attitude. The Porsche 911 drips with sensuality.

The Ford GT (or GT40 for that matter) also exhibits passion but in a different way. It's aggressive but purposeful looking in a race car kind of way.

The Ferrari Testarossa was audacious with it's straked sides. It demanded attention.

Skip the vanilla and give me a banana split.

Touch

Make the shifter shift precisely and easily like a Honda. The car should feel like an extension of the driver. The pedals should be set up for easy heel and toeing. Sloppy steering, brakes that grab or turn to mush, or a transmission that feels like rubber will only turn people off. Everything should be ergonomic, easy to reach, use, and find in the dark.

Purpose build the car for enthusiasts. Don't sell it like a boring Camry because it's a different audience. Camry owners want something that's comfortable, reliable, and that will hold its value over time.

Enthusiasts want fun, something that's 'chuckable'. Something that can be pushed right up to its limits but is easy to recover if those limits are surpassed. They want to become one with the car. If you keep one question in mind, "Will this help the enthusiast to become one with their car?" it should help to keep you on track.

A drivers car should handle precisely like a scalpel. It should be able to make repeated hard stops easily and in a controlled manner. Give it enough power to make your passenger smile when you hit the gas and to make passing easy. It should have enough power to bring the rear of the car around to tighten the line in sharp low speed auto-cross corners. A 0-60 time in the mid to high 6 second range should do it.

For some great insight into what makes great drivers cars send the design team to an auto-cross competition and have them drive the cars mentioned above.

Talk to and survey people/drivers at the auto-cross. Talk to the editors and readers of Grass Roots Motorsports Magazine. They're very friendly. I have a feeling you'll get an idea real quick as to what it takes to create a classic drivers car.

In short, the car should be involving, but not dangerous. Precise but not brutal. Predictable at the limit, but comfortable enough that it won't shake the fillings out of your dates teeth.

Most important, it should be fun, reliable, relatively inexpensive to fuel and maintain. Helping tuners and backyard mechanics out by making the engine easy to work on and interchangeable with other bigger Toyota engines is also a big step in the right direction.

Modified by CelicaGTS at 9:32 PM 2/21/2008

FR
50/50 weight dist
short gear ratio
somewhere in the 150hp
light
N/A
87 octane and good gas mileage
ind susp
4 wheel disc brakes
small turning radius
high rev limit

toyota badge but priced like scions... should be good for me

Good handling is also a must, as well as toyota reliability! The car was also very versitile, meaning that it can be used by a 80 year old grandma to buy groceries or be built up as a full blown race car. The car must also be freindly to modifications, as well as be good enough for the average person to use as a daily driver.

If Toyota can embody all these qualities in the succsessor, as well as bring it at a reasonable cost, then i will be the first in line to buy one.
-stan

I think Toyota almost had it right with the Echo/Yaris (RS). The price was right, the weight was right, the interior was right, and the car is hugely popular and selling like mad. The car handles well and is available with performance upgrades directly from Toyota.

Now, if they could make something similar to the Echo...but RWD. Use the same engine, but maybe a refined 'G' head. Make the body a little more sporty (wider stance, lower roofline), and they'll have a winner. The car will be practical, fun to drive, and extremely attractive to cheap sports car enthusiasts like us.

Oh yeah, and you should call it the "Toyota AE" kinda how you did with the FJ.

-Good-Luck!
-Matt-Panic!

-Rich

For all the people and their suggestions Please add what makes a icon car. Not just want a car wish list of things. That does help but this is post to inspire future models. Lets think the possible cars that can be More than and yet better for future generations.

"What this mission now entails is the education of the young engineers about the "culture" of cars. Exactly, in words...it is a study to understand what makes a cultural phenomenon. """

MOTO-P

Please read the first page The date has changed

This meeting has been postponed to February 25th (MONDAY)
So Keep the Voices Coming!!!

MOTO? Are you in Japan or doing a Video Conference call?

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Considering that a base Lexus IS250 at $30,555 it should not be too hard.

For those that want a growling exhaust:
Dual sport exhaust by HKS® $1,500

For fenders or ground effects for an aggressive look:
Ground effects kit $1,500
Dual Sport Exhaust with Rear Ground Effect $2,095

A higher reving, more powerful engine, upgrade to the IS350 $36,005, about $5000 more.

The 2008 BMW 128i is looking to come in around $29,375.
These are some of the current cheapest highend competition, 6 cyclinders.

Considering that the Mercedes Benz Smart car can sell more than 25,000 cars and still have a high demand. A lot of people are looking for fuel effieciency.

But in the end Toyota will look at these posting, with a base car in mind at a certain price point and profit margin to determine if such a car is feasible to build considering the upcoming competion from the BMW series 1 and Hyundai not to mention the Ford Mustang which is undergoing redesign for 2009.

I certaintly would like to buy another Toyota, but they better hurry up cause I
cannot wait much longer. Either the competition will entice Toyota to join in or scare them into sticking with their bread and butter family vehicles.

h3tc

I don’t remember what the price for the AE86

Now the car that changed the performance industry was not the Mustang GT but the Mustang LX

It was lighter then the GT and cost $10,000.

As much as I dislike the Ford Mustang the fact is it save the performance car industry in the mid 80's

Now if I where to say anything to the Toyota engineers is

Figure out a good engine you like and stick with it for awhile.
Before I bought my MR2 I told people I would never buy a Toyota because they can’t figure out what they want to do

There engineering is all over the place they have more motors then they can shake a stick at

Another thing I would say is don’t build an ugly car the MRS comes to mind

I think the Future is AWD so there would have to be an AWD model

The cars I own are
3 Opel GTs one a race car (RWD)
3 first Generation MR2s one a race car
AWD GMC C3 (Denali) this is what I drive every day (until I get one of the SC MR2's fixed)

The car I might buy in the future is the Plymouth Crossfire

David Ligon

The advantage to this is it would bring the motor to the states legally and those of us that want to keep our old AE86's the motor would be available with US specs and legalities.

+1 for Davegt27 on figuring out a good engine and sticking with it. Domestic motors engine parts are very interchangable. Look at your GM counterparts.

Attend more local events that are posted on this forum and many other forums like http://www.ectoyotas.com/forum , http://www.hachiroku.net, http://www.toyotanation.com, ect. Maybe even sell parts at discount on them for loyal Toyota owners like Carrie does. What I'm saying is be more pro-active to seeing what Toyota owners want, and show your presence that you support us. Like I said you'd be surprised what alot of us collect and keep for 20 years or more. Even something as small as a Hotwheels AE86 showing up for 1 year can be considered a collectable. For me I already bought 2 NASCAR Toyota Diecast models. Get into the culture that we experiance up close and personal. Maybe even try some of the stuff we do on your own cars.

Also ask HKS or Greddy what kind of upgrades they would make for the new sport compact. Maybe they have some ideas that TRD wouldn't have.

Modified by kumachn at 10:11 PM 2/23/2008

~ Normal is Boring ! ~

Lightess and a responsive engine has their place, but the appeal of cars like these, in contrast to the appeal of Porsches and BMW's is the ability to go to the aftermarket to make a Corolla GT-S handle like a Lotus Elise or a Lancer Evolution rocket from a stoplight like a 911 turbo.

If you want to see what makes certain cars popular, look at the aftermarket support they generate. Manufacturers see a new car as the finished product. Enthusiasts see it as a blank canvas. When cars are engineered, an additional element should be considered in the design process. Can we build an engine that requires minimal work to withstand forced induction? Can we design a suspension that turns an otherwise decent handling car into a track star? You want to build a car with the enthusiast in mind? Send your engineers out to track events and autocrosses and see what true fans do with their cars.

And stay away from retro. I've seen enough with the New Beetle, Mustang, Ford GT, Challenger, Camaro, Mini, etc. Or do you lack faith that your automotive designers can create something beautiful from scratch?