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JPSaaristo
Member
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11 posts [100%]
Tampere/Finland
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Don´t know :-D It´s just a regular super profile HX35. Check there -> http://www.proturbo.fi/Unleash...Q.pdf
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Evo_lucian
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1584 posts [95%]
Saint Lucia, West Indies
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Interesting. Thanks for the link .
Dwight
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") A$s¤ho£€ since 1986. The only thing in life worse than being talked about is not being talked about my site
http://budgetracer.webs.com
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williamae86
Member
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20 posts [100%]
Bountiful Utah
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hello everyone here is my numbers and set up so farengine
4agze
Arias pistons: 82mm Bore 8.5:1
kelford cams 193Ts: (in 262 8.25mm lift) (ex 266 8.25mm lift)
20v silver top rods
balanced crank
mild head port
GARRETT GT2560R
using mega squirt ver3 
first dyno on a zero mile fresh engine build its conservative tune only 7psi
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stupidstuff
Member
Offline
157 posts [100%]
The secret valley Ca
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| Re: Re: (williamae86) » | 9:32 AM 5/22/2012 |
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Will you be able to get better torque with some tuning? Otherwise great numbers with only 7 psi.
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Warren
Member
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194 posts [93%]
Victoria BC
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Is that a smallport head/intake?
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d962r
Member
Offline
36 posts [100%]
Clackamas or
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Looks like a large port TVIS to me. But I see that the power curve dips befor it rises again. Looks like your Turbo is a bit too small for The RPM range your motor runs out at. That or your gate is not holding. But my bet is still that the Turbo is too small. I could be wrong.... WAIT!!! this was 7psi?!? DAMN! I'm going to have to look into this one. What will it run out at I'm wondering.
Modified by d962r at 5:46 PM 5/25/2012
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williamae86
Member
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20 posts [100%]
Bountiful Utah
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yeah that's only a steady 15 degrees all the way across on the timing map just something safe while i broke it in.it is a small port i have a t3 adapter to run my big port intake manifold i plan to tune for 300whp and as much torque as i can
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stupidstuff
Member
Offline
157 posts [100%]
The secret valley Ca
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This is great info as it dispels the myth that you need larg boost to hit over 200 whp. Hell assuming an sc12 could hit 8-10 psi on this setup it could hit over 200 easy.
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d962r
Member
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36 posts [100%]
Clackamas or
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so... what did you set your cam timing at? did you just go off the specs from Kelford? Also, tell me more about your turbo that you got. trim? is this just a 240sx SR20DET turbo or something different? I was running a T3 super 60 with Webb 577 cams on my small port. It had 2mm over size valves with some port work done. I was only able to get 225whp @17psi
but that was an a log manifold. ended up with 3 melted pistons and on my next/hopfuly better build. New motor is a small port with ALOT more port work done, stock valves and cams so far. Going to be modifing an Atlantic header to run a turbo. But not sure what one to run now. HX35? GT2860RS? I need power out to 9000 rpm plus, and not like a light switch. (road racer)
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Evo_lucian
Offline
1584 posts [95%]
Saint Lucia, West Indies
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225 whp from a super 60 at 17 psi doesn't sound right to me.As for turbo selection , it depends on your power goal and budget . Holset hy35 would be my choice , but if the budget permitted , I would do the gt2860.
Dwight
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") A$s¤ho£€ since 1986. The only thing in life worse than being talked about is not being talked about my site
http://budgetracer.webs.com
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d962r
Member
Offline
36 posts [100%]
Clackamas or
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what part doesn't sound right? the amount of boost used or the end whp?
I went with the super 60 because I had one. I thought it would be a good choice and figured it would be good to 275hp. I could have been wrong. I know when I do the calc on the Garrett web site, I come up with a GT3071R when I shoot 375HP
(300whp).
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Evo_lucian
Offline
1584 posts [95%]
Saint Lucia, West Indies
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From what I have seen, they should make more than 225 at 17 psi on a 4a .
Dwight
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") A$s¤ho£€ since 1986. The only thing in life worse than being talked about is not being talked about my site
http://budgetracer.webs.com
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d962r
Member
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36 posts [100%]
Clackamas or
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well I was running web577 cams and I wonder if I had too much overlap on the cam timing. I have gon back to stock red top cams and valves. but I picked up a
GT2560R should I go to it or just stick with the Super 60? I'm only shooting for 300hp.
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d962r
Member
Offline
36 posts [100%]
Clackamas or
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| Re: Re: (williamae86) » | 6:27 PM 5/31/2012 |
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Edit
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do you think I could get you to send me your MS tune? I'm needing to compair notes on spark maps if you don't mind.
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matt dunn
Offline
50 posts [100%]
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My engine details7AGTE BT 20V Turbo 7A block and crank
Argo Rods
0.5mm o/s 4AGZE 8.9:1 pistons
20V blacktop head
Toda adjustable camwheels
standard toyota 20V head gasket and head studs.
800cc sard Injectors
GT3076R Turbo
Tial 44mm external wastegate
hand made airbox for ITB's.
Link Storm ECU
Power
354kw @ 21 psi
7AGTE 20V Turbo
475hp atw
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miander
Member
Offline
460 posts [100%]
Covington VA
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This is probably going to confuse you but it happens and is known to happen especially with the prehistoric T3 turbos. I have seen it on a dyno with my own eyes a T3 60 trim make 256whp at 14psi on a D16. They upped the psi to 18psi to see how close they can get to 300whp and they made 238whp. The reason is simple. The T3 turbine is absolute $hit, they are an acient design that does not handle exhaust gasses like any modern day turbo. The safe hp peak for a T3 turbo with a stage 1 turbine is 250whp. Even at this level of power the turbine houing crack and go all to hell.To explain what happens the turbo compressor converts mechanical energy from the turbine shaft into compressor flow. The compressor squeezes a multiple of atmospheric pressure into the chamber. Once the combustion process is complete it is now time to exit the chamber; but where does it go? A turbo functions by amplifying the exhaust gas pressure by building heat up in the nozzle of the turbine which makes the pressure at the turbine absolute rediculous. WHat happens though is when you have a compressor that flows considerable more then the turbine can properly handle you get excess back pressure at the turbine that can not be used to propel the turbine. This is where the wastegate comes into the mix but the ports on the internal wastegate in the T3 was never designed to handle 300whp of compressor flow. They were designed to handle less around 200whp flow tops. So now that both the turbine is backed up by excess exhaust gas pressure and the wastegate can not adequately handle the excess the exhaust spills back into the combustion chamber causing the engine to lose hp as the pistons literally have to force it out. Basically what I am saying is if the turbine and wastegate can not safely handle the compressor you create excess exhaust gasses to spill into the combustion chamber absorbing mechanical energy from the crankshaft to physically push the exhaust out. This happens when the psi seen pre turbine is higher then psi seen at the intake valve. Its called pumping loss. Go with the GT2560R.  Its turbine though smaller is light years better design then the standard T3 radial design. Also you can fix some of this issue with the T3 by porting the internal wastegate or by converting to external. However it will still happen.
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miander
Member
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460 posts [100%]
Covington VA
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| Re: Re: (williamae86) » | 10:03 AM 6/9/2012 |
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Edit
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My last setup was very similar in the fact that I used GT2560R and that it did not spool as well as I liked. I seen just about the same exact issue as you did with spool coming around 4K and I made 222whp with 10psi. The GT2560R is a very capable lil turbo but I have never been impressed by its spool up at all except when it was used on the S15 SR20DET and it was damn near instanteous. I did my tune though and it was my first go at it. I did make some mistakes but I would be surprised if you get it to 3500. Couple of questions though, What tubo manifold are you using? Is it the ebay T25 flange model? Also what AR are you using on the hotside? I think your cams may prohibit some of the spool as well.
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daveskatesallday
Member
Offline
1205 posts [99%]
TX
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| Quote, originally posted by miander » | | This is probably going to confuse you but it happens and is known to happen especially with the prehistoric T3 turbos. I have seen it on a dyno with my own eyes a T3 60 trim make 256whp at 14psi on a D16. They upped the psi to 18psi to see how close they can get to 300whp and they made 238whp. The reason is simple. The T3 turbine is absolute $hit, they are an acient design that does not handle exhaust gasses like any modern day turbo. The safe hp peak for a T3 turbo with a stage 1 turbine is 250whp. Even at this level of power the turbine houing crack and go all to hell. To explain what happens the turbo compressor converts mechanical energy from the turbine shaft into compressor flow. The compressor squeezes a multiple of atmospheric pressure into the chamber. Once the combustion process is complete it is now time to exit the chamber; but where does it go? A turbo functions by amplifying the exhaust gas pressure by building heat up in the nozzle of the turbine which makes the pressure at the turbine absolute rediculous. WHat happens though is when you have a compressor that flows considerable more then the turbine can properly handle you get excess back pressure at the turbine that can not be used to propel the turbine. This is where the wastegate comes into the mix but the ports on the internal wastegate in the T3 was never designed to handle 300whp of compressor flow. They were designed to handle less around 200whp flow tops. So now that both the turbine is backed up by excess exhaust gas pressure and the wastegate can not adequately handle the excess the exhaust spills back into the combustion chamber causing the engine to lose hp as the pistons literally have to force it out. Basically what I am saying is if the turbine and wastegate can not safely handle the compressor you create excess exhaust gasses to spill into the combustion chamber absorbing mechanical energy from the crankshaft to physically push the exhaust out. This happens when the psi seen pre turbine is higher then psi seen at the intake valve. Its called pumping loss. Go with the GT2560R. Its turbine though smaller is light years better design then the standard T3 radial design. Also you can fix some of this issue with the T3 by porting the internal wastegate or by converting to external. However it will still happen. |
very informative i would have never known that
"sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twaini have a few things for sale check em out need to get rid of this stuff http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=89494 :thumbup:
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d962r
Member
Offline
36 posts [100%]
Clackamas or
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Thank you
I can see where you are going with that. It does seem to fall flat on the upper end as boost builds then tapers back. this may also help explain the piston melting I was getting on the intake side of the piston. I do like the fact that it spooled up fast at lower RPM range. But I do remember my first T25 set up and that it felt like it did make better power over all. I never did get to Dyno that one as it was on an old motor that I didn't care about and tosted it when I got this motor built the 1st time....  wish I had now.Any ideas on runner length for the header?
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MazterDizazter
Offline
259 posts [100%]
Marshfield MA
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I'll be building an engine similar to Matt Dunn's, substituting the parts in captions:"7AGTE BT 20V Turbo 7A block and crank
Argo Rods (Crower Rods)
0.5mm o/s 4AGZE 8.9:1 pistons
20V blacktop head
Toda adjustable camwheels (OE camwheels, retaining VVT)
standard toyota 20V head gasket and head studs.
800cc sard Injectors (550cc, could go 800 but probably not necessary?)
GT3076R Turbo (GTX2863R dual ball bearing, billet compressor wheel)
Tial 44mm external wastegate (TiAL 38mm EWG)
hand made airbox for ITB's. (MRP custom 20v plenum)
Link Storm ECU"
(Liquid to air intercooler) Can anyone speculate what I could make for power? Should I go with .63 or .82 exhaust housing? Other suggestions?
1987 Toyota MR2 hardtop
20v blacktop 4A-GE
Ground control, Koni, Cusco, ST
XXR, Toyo, Wilwood, EBC, Odyssey
Recaro, MOMO, Fidanza, SPEC
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Warren
Member
Offline
194 posts [93%]
Victoria BC
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Yesterday was the first drift day for me with my 4AGTE, 9psi. It strait lines 2nd and 3rd(barely). I will get pictures when I am off work. Its rad.
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d962r
Member
Offline
36 posts [100%]
Clackamas or
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| Re: Re: (williamae86) » | 11:37 AM 9/8/2012 |
Reply
Edit
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this thread seems to have died off...so I have ordered my AEM EMS4 for my build... should have it by the 11th or 12th of sept. so does anyone have any base maps for the AEM set ups? even for the mega squirt would be helpfull. hoping to get this new motor broken in soon and start tuning on it soon. It's been too long and I need to get my ride running. Then I can tear it back down to finish up the welding and get the frame repainted.
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d962r
Member
Offline
36 posts [100%]
Clackamas or
|
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rongfk
Member
Offline
1296 posts [97%]
SO.CAL. LWD ca
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Amyone near 90262 ca that can help me out with a street tune and possibly help me figure out why i am not getting a tach signal to my cluster? The guy who built my wire harness and megasquirt 2 ver. 3.0 changed his number on me and i cant get ahold of him to finnish this up. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ronnie.
want OE power windows in your ae86?
want to convert your turn signal switch to opperate your jdm kouki signals properly?
want an adaptor harness, or sensors for you jdm digital cluster?
want a 9k tach to modify your stock zeinki GTS cluster?HIT ME UP...... if i dont already have it, i can get it.
rongfk1963@yahoo.com some helpfull info for you.....
AE86 Manual (100Mb) http://files.aeu86.org/manuals/AE86Manual.pdf
A4-GE Manual (92Mb) http://files.aeu86.org/manuals/4A-GEManual.pdf
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EddieNanakase
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148 posts [100%]
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| Re: Re: (williamae86) » | 12:44 PM 10/21/2012 |
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Edit
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Hi williamae86, I wanted to know where you bought your header. I also have
the same turbo Garrett GT2560R and looking at your setup, I realized that
it's probably the only way you can position the turbo. Let me know for how long
you've had that header and how well it's working out for you. Would appreciate it if
you got back to me, thank you.
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ae86_slide
Offline
10 posts [100%]
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I was researching waste gate options for 4agte's and came across this thread, lots of good info in here.
I'll add my setup:
Ae101 ze
converted to all RWD 4age gear,
full engine rebuild with,
ARP rings,
ACL bearings,
ARP head studs,
Cometic 1mm head gasket,
All new pumps, seals, gaskets etc,
head ported and manifolds port matched
Std big port cams
custom steam pipe turbo manifold,
custom alloy inlet manifold,
Bigger falcon throttle body (xf)
RX7 550cc injectors,
T28 bb turbo brand spanking new,
HDI dual stage boost controller
Front mount
3" dump to 3" straight through exhaust
Razorback ecu201.6 whp at 12.5psi. I wanted to tune it for 14psi but the stock actuator wouldn't allow any more than 12.5 (that was with the actuator vac line crimped).
I've ordered an adjustable actuator and 11.5psi spring but eventually I want to change the exhaust manifold and use a waste gate. Any helpful info I should be considering? Here's pics 
Old engine bay pic, missing piping etc but you get the idea.
 I'm hoping for maybe 220whp at 14psi. Does that sound right to you turbo 4a guru's?
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Warren
Member
Offline
194 posts [93%]
Victoria BC
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yeah you should easily be able to hit 225~ at 14psi. Especially on the turbo.Would you be able to post up your timing map?
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ae86_slide
Offline
10 posts [100%]
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With the razorback all the timing, fuel etc is entered in by the hand controller. I dont have a downloadable log.
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Evo_lucian
Offline
1584 posts [95%]
Saint Lucia, West Indies
|
More info on the razorback
Dwight
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") A$s¤ho£€ since 1986. The only thing in life worse than being talked about is not being talked about my site
http://budgetracer.webs.com
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ae86_slide
Offline
10 posts [100%]
|
The razorback is a piggyback ecu that works off a 3sfe ecu and loom. The 3sfe was used because they are so common. I got the razorback, went to the wreckers and got a complete 3sfe loom (and ecu, not that I needed it) for $50 then striped the loom down to what I needed. I ended up with about 12 wires going into the engine bay.
The ecu itself is tuned with a hand controller that lets you modify everything just like a stand alone ecu would. When you aren't changing settings it displays revs, intake temp, timing trim, injector duty cycle, water temp, etc. I'm happy with it.
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