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 5AG Kits where can I found them?
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negrizio
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304 posts [99%]
Miami FL

 5AG Kits where can I found them? Reply  Edit


I've been searching the web for any aftermakets retailson 5AGs kits for my 1985 GTS 4AG. But it seems that HKS does not make them anymore, can anyone tell me where could I find a kit to increase engine displacement? Brands perhaps?



http://www.plagaperformance.com
1985 GT-S 3 Door Hatchback NA High Comp (In progres)
1968 230s Fintail Mercedes Benz



Max_Misawa


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30794 posts [99%]
San Jose CA

  » Reply  Edit


how much are you willing to spend
hahhaha

Max



Send me an e-mail

Maxfrommisawa@aol.com

No More Toll Free Number Sorry Guys :(

negrizio
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304 posts [99%]
Miami FL

 Re: (Max_Misawa) » Reply  Edit


Perhaps 2 or 2.5k ! What worries me is that Toda Racing stoped production also. Yesterday I receibed an email:

"Thank you for your recent inquiry and interest in TODA Racing products.

Unfortunately all product development on the 4AG engines is stopped, since the demand (Even in Japanese Market) is non-existing.

These kinds of parts would have to be specially made based on individuals.

Best Regards,

TODA Racing USA
18410 Bandilier Circle
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
United States Of America
TEL: +1 714-968-7040
FAX: +1 714-968-7050
E-Mail: info@todaracingusa.com
"





http://www.plagaperformance.com
1985 GT-S 3 Door Hatchback NA High Comp (In progres)
1968 230s Fintail Mercedes Benz

Max_Misawa


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30794 posts [99%]
San Jose CA

  » Reply  Edit


2500 USD probably would not be enough

Max



Send me an e-mail

Maxfrommisawa@aol.com

No More Toll Free Number Sorry Guys :(

16v Justice




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1905 posts [80%]
East Bay Area CA

 Re: (Max_Misawa) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Max_Misawa »
how much are you willing to spend
hahhaha

Max

Hahahahaha



240SX = the new Civic
negrizio
Member



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304 posts [99%]
Miami FL

 Re: (16v Justice) » Reply  Edit


Well am trying to get some quotes here and there for a budget build up. I've only worked for classic restoration (1960s benz, Mustangs & Camaros), this will be my first try on tuning performance on my wife's car(1985 GTS).

How much you guys think I could spend? Just on engine applications/parts without body work...



http://www.plagaperformance.com
1985 GT-S 3 Door Hatchback NA High Comp (In progres)
1968 230s Fintail Mercedes Benz

Plex




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3761 posts [89%]
Suisun City CA

  » Reply  Edit


Umm... Thats really up to you...


Some people here (NOT pointing fingers here) remove their air filters and airboxes for 'more power' others use a Home Depot Racing (lol) air intakes, and garage door lip on the front bumper...

then there is the other crowd, which pays crazy amounts to have crazy things done, like 3SGTE swaps, F20C (S2000) swaps done, etc etc

You seem more like the F20C kinda guy to me



Summa Cum Laude Graduate, AE86 University Class of '02
Max_Misawa


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30794 posts [99%]
San Jose CA

  » Reply  Edit


Well if i remember tright there is a shop in Wa.
the owner has a complete 5AG kit
I had heard him say he was going to get rid of his AE86 parts.
something like a new in the box complete 5AG kit I would expect to sell for 8500 or so
I dunno though he might now even sell it
considering used 5AG cranks alone go for 1500+
the Pistons are very hard to find
and the rods well i never seen them for sale by them selves ever.

It would be easier to use TRD atlantic parts IMO

Max



Send me an e-mail

Maxfrommisawa@aol.com

No More Toll Free Number Sorry Guys :(

Plex




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3761 posts [89%]
Suisun City CA

  » Reply  Edit


Was it Bob @ Drift Office in Auburn, WA?



Summa Cum Laude Graduate, AE86 University Class of '02
Max_Misawa


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30794 posts [99%]
San Jose CA

 Re: (Plex) » Reply  Edit


yup

Max



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wanabeGTShatch




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181 posts [98%]

 Re: (Max_Misawa) » Reply  Edit


well i had 2 but i sold one to the guy at this email richard.k.white@boeing.com and he just bought mine and another guys so if your in luck he might be lookin to sell one. the ones he has are perfect for the bluetop too. good luck

but those are only the cranks themselves so youll have to get pistons made and rods are the same length but your gonna need something alittle beefier than stock bluetop and it will take some work cause you/they will have to grind on the inside of the block to make the 5ag fit.



"It doesnt matter if it runs...It's gonna be fast when it does!"
oldeskewltoy




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13133 posts [99%]
Portland

 Re: (negrizio) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by negrizio »
Yesterday I receibed an email:

"Thank you for your recent inquiry and interest in TODA Racing products.

Unfortunately all product development on the 4AG engines is stopped, since the demand (Even in Japanese Market) is non-existing.

These kinds of parts would have to be specially made based on individuals.

Best Regards,

TODA Racing USA
18410 Bandilier Circle
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
United States Of America
TEL: +1 714-968-7040
FAX: +1 714-968-7050
E-Mail: info@todaracingusa.com
"

Did everyone else miss this????


No offense... a stroker kit is no biggy... Crower... or any other dedicated company of that kind can mkae you one...

If you want very good torque figures do a 7AGE(7AFE block 4AGE head Porsche 944{hmmm or was it 924} timing belt) the engine won't rev as sweetly as the 4AG... but you'll have 20% more torque just from the added stroke.


the news is not exactly clear... the say development... not availability.... but it should still be of concern............





Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/ USE it!

I've been wrong before... and at somepoint in time, I'll be wrong again

Davegt27


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1305 posts [99%]

 Re: 5AG Kits where can I found them? (negrizio) » Reply  Edit



I have a 5AG crank on the way from Japan its still at least 4 weeks out

I did not want to do a 7AG

you can get a Custom crank done/made but the price would not be worth it for the power gain you would get

I would say $1200 would be the limit for a 5AG crank (for me anyway)

I missed out on 3 of them at around $1K

still not sure what I will do with it once its hear but I want to do custom 83mm pistons and Carrillo rods (just need to decide if it will be NA or supercharged)

Oh-- and I was told you could probably still get TODA stuff out of Japan

JMTCW




Davegt27
Code One Racing (C1R)

negrizio
Member



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304 posts [99%]
Miami FL

 Re: 5AG Kits where can I found them? (Davegt27) » Reply  Edit


Thanks for the info. You see I live in Honduras and its way to hard to find performance parts here. What I do is buy them in the US an pay a airfreight to my country.

I've been doing my homework... and correct me if am wrong but I think rods are kind of hard to find them too. Specially will the early models of 4AG that have smaller connecting rods, which is the one I got.



http://www.plagaperformance.com
1985 GT-S 3 Door Hatchback NA High Comp (In progres)
1968 230s Fintail Mercedes Benz

Max_Misawa


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30794 posts [99%]
San Jose CA

 Re: 5AG Kits where can I found them? (negrizio) » Reply  Edit


you can get good after market rods for about 400~500 usd dollars
one of the member here had some custom made and they turned out pretty nice
you would not have to specifically get the HKS rods
I know you can special order a stroker crank from companies such as CROWER
but they run about 3500 bucks

Max



Send me an e-mail

Maxfrommisawa@aol.com

No More Toll Free Number Sorry Guys :(

jinx


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1022 posts [100%]

  » Reply  Edit


if you're building a normally aspirated "buzz box" to go fast, it's open wallet season imo. Question is if it will still be adequate
otherwise.....
what toyota 4cyl could possibly make more sense that a 7AG ??
We've already seen a FWD street corolla go 10.8sec propelled by a turbo 7A with stock 20V head/oe cams. Should be even quicker in a rwd corolla.
Is that not good enough ?

Belfab rods and GZE pistons should keep a lid on the budget - 20V or 16 + cams

Outside of that, its very hard to match the performance per dollar value of a ca18det swap. My entire motor/gbox/loom/ecu cost ~$1000.
Lotsa lo 12sec street rwd ca18 rollas exist with unopened motors & minor mods

Davegt27


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1305 posts [99%]

 Re: (jinx) » Reply  Edit



its all personal preference one person likes 7AG stuff another wants CA 18

yet another its 13B or a 3SG

I try not to get into do this or you should do that, and never in a million years do I try to get people to follow me


the post starter wanted to know about 5AG kits/cranks so that's what I focused
on

I think a 5AG Kit uses CA18 pistons but I want to get it in my hands and not depend on other peoples info





Davegt27
Code One Racing (C1R)

MartinS
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178 posts [100%]
Zurich

  » Reply  Edit


7a is just toooooo much stroke for N/A enthusiasts.

But 5a crank in a 7a block with longer rods and Toda pistons would rule. :D

hakkone
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23 posts [100%]
Adelaide SA

  » Reply  Edit


Sorry to revive an old thread

but I am also interested IF there are any companies who can make these 5AG kits.

Also where can I find more information on the TRD atlantic parts or any brands who make Formula Atlantic Parts for the 4AG.

Can anyone here point me to the right direction?



Can't kick the 86 addiction!


neil85ae86


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526 posts [98%]

 Re: (negrizio) » Reply  Edit


talk to Richard at TED, he was a member on here at one time

http://www.tedcomponents.com/power.htm

Neil




Uber D.I.Y. Zenki Turbo
Squirted since spring '03

beasted86
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617 posts [100%]
Miami FL

 Re: (neil85ae86) » Reply  Edit


This is kind of off topic, but...

What is the obsession with 5AG Kits when it takes machine work, weakens the block, and gives a worse rod/stroke ratio than a 7AG setup?

Is it just people trying to be sleeper (emissions), or cheaters for competition racing? or do people really think they are getting a better engine with the 5AG vs 7AG?



7AGTE AW11.... Coming soon
chohdog




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3965 posts [100%]
Long Beach CA

 Re: (beasted86) » Reply  Edit


Most of the people who want a 5AG kit want it so they can say they have one. Its old, discontinued and made by HKS which makes it a rare item. I'd say that's about 90% of people since they also probably don't know that if they don't purchase the kit, a custom piston will be needed along with machine work.

To a small percentage of people, there are a few benefits. Yes the 7AG is an alternative to a similar end, but there are differences which I think make the 5AG a preferable setup.

First and formost is the crank. Since it is a 4AG based crank, as discussed in the technical section all of the oil passages are not on the same plane as they are on the 7A crank, giving them strength in the cross section which makes them inherently stronger by design than a 7AG crank. Also the main bearing oil hole is centered, allowing a full 360 rotational coverage for lubrication unlike the offset hole in the 7A crank.

In addition, the 5A crank has eight flywheel bolt holes while the 7A only has 6. This also helps from a stength standpoint, and also with the ability to use an ARP type fastening kit as I'm not sure if another application of a strengthened bolt will fit the larger, 7A type of bolt.

In addition, your connecting rod selection is much bigger. The stock 7A rods seem to be ok in N/A trim, but in forced induction or racing situations they look to be a bit weak or sub-par. This is the reason most people will go with an aftermarket rod, but off the shelf rods are limited (to what I've seen) to bellfab, pauter, and recently crower, with 4a/5a connecting rod selection being triple that.

When it comes down to it, are most people really going to need those added features that make the 5A crank superior to a 7a? Absolutely not. But to those who use their hardware for competition, durability and technological superiority always help.

beasted86
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617 posts [100%]
Miami FL

 Re: (chohdog) » Reply  Edit


Well this is the way I'm seeing it... your gaining in one area while your losing in another.

As previously mentioned... your losing in rod/stroke ratio and side-loading of the piston, your losing in block ridgidity by having the machine the walls to clear the counterweights... and most importantly... your losing in money.

How much does a 5AG kit cost vs. a 7AG shortblock? How much more money could you spend to make the 7AG as efficient?

Oh well... to each his own.



7AGTE AW11.... Coming soon
MartinS
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178 posts [100%]
Zurich

  » Reply  Edit


Anyone ever thought seriously about putting the 5ag in the 7a block and bore it out to 82mm or even 83mm?

1. Insane R/S Ratio - around 1.62 (like Honda B16)
2. square design 83/83
3. of-shelf pistons with custom rods
4. better flywheel choice
5. very revable

1,2,4,5 are advantages and 3 is nighter a pro nor a con. You need custom pistons if you stick it in a 4a block, whereas the 7a block does not need modifications and the crank has less stroke and gives it better revability.

Davegt27


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1305 posts [99%]

 Re: (MartinS) » Reply  Edit


Yeah I had to order custom pistons for this 5AG crank my last set of NA 10.5 to 1 pistons where $500 per set

These are over $700 --- I should have checked before I got the crank

But I got the crank and Carrillo rods for super cheap

Another option (I think) is to use CA18 pistons --83mm

I keep seeing a 4.5AG on yahoo Japan and I think they are using CA18's

I think I will get in under $2000 for the 5AG motor so we will see

edit: the 5AGZE custom pistons only cost $530 (took off the coatings so the price was lower)


Modified by Davegt27 at 12:25 AM 6/3/2009




Davegt27
Code One Racing (C1R)

jinx


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1022 posts [100%]

  » Reply  Edit


7A crank already proven to stand up to more power than we could ever use
6 bolt with pinned flywheel too.... no different than what monster 3TCs do
colibri86
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8 posts [100%]
houston texas

  » Reply  Edit


I talked to someone at Tomei today who said they could also make a stroker crank/piston combo if there is enough interest. Presumably for a good bit less than the crank they offer now which it seems is a worked over formula atlantic piece changed to work for wet sump.
hakkone
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23 posts [100%]
Adelaide SA

 Re: (colibri86) » Reply  Edit


so what did they say? are they going to make it?
I wonder how many interested people they need to get the new kit out.



Can't kick the 86 addiction!


 



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