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 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulleyFirst  1 2 >  Last
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Kikoushi80


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350 posts [100%]

 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley Reply  Edit


Just curious if anyone has done this or there is any discussion about this?

I'm thinking premature wear of the S/C... mad boost though!

Any input?

Anyone had any good results?



KILLERGTZ


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722 posts [93%]
philadelphia pa

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not sure what this is can you elaborate?
shottahachi
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314 posts [100%]
duluth ga

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (Kikoushi80) » Reply  Edit


well, i have some what of taht set up cus i'm having ABV issues. I have the hks pulley, and a pulley bro s/c pulley. i'm only making 11.5 psi. 12 psi when i rev it hard all the way to red line.

something is definitely wrong with my gze. there is serious boost leak somewhere.

i can't find it. I'm thinking that its the abv cus this happened ever since i sprayed carb cleaner into it. lost 2.5 psi with in a day after i spray carb cleaner. sucks.

shottahachi
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duluth ga

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (asjoseph) » Reply  Edit


cool, thanks for the info. I'll keep the hks crank pulley on. I have a question, would spraying carb cleaner into the ABV and the S/C where the hot pipe connect do damage to the s/c? i was told that spraying carb cleaner into the abv will damage the internal of the abv. I bought 2 used abvs and tried them both. They didn't make any difference.

Also, is there a place where SC12s can be sent to be rebuilt?

Kikoushi80


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350 posts [100%]

 Re: (Killergtz) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by KILLERGTZ »
not sure what this is can you elaborate?

The company NST sells an overdrive crank pulley for the 4AGZE that is 180 mm.

I believe it boosts the S/C psi from 11 (on an ae101) to 13-14psi.


The ebay 103 S/C pulley is, well, a 103mm S/C pulley sold out of Austrailia that boosts the RPM of the S/C even higher since it is smaller.

I was just wondering if anyone had put both on?

It would make the S/C spin at a much higher rpm, maybe beyond what it was designed to do by Toyota.

Anyone burn their S/C up because of it?? I don't wanna be the first to do so.

shubert_ae102




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1094 posts [90%]
atlanta GA

 Re: (Kikoushi80) » Reply  Edit


yeah . . . .

pretty much any rpm over what produces 16 lbs, is gonna melt the teflon on the rotors , then lead to s/c failure.



86atlanta.proboards.com <----------Atlanta based ae86 community
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San Diego CA

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley » Reply  Edit


The real trouble with using the Pulley Bro 103 sc clutched pulley is that it was poorly made. Their pulley suppliers screwed up the placement of the pulley ribs, and only a 3 rib belt can be used on it, by offsetting the narrower belt on both the crank pulley and the sc pulley. You may or may not have belt walk because of this, but you will definitely have premature belt wear, due to the increased stress of the different sized pulleys, and the much smaller sc belt. You'll also have to tension the smaller belt tighter, to avoid belt slippage, and that will also cause increased wear. Pulley Bro's had all these other sc-14 pulleys, and non-clutched sc-12 pulleys made properly, but were really pathetic when they decided to accept and then sell the badly made one.



So long and thanks for all the fish! =)
Kikoushi80


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350 posts [100%]

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (Q-Authority) » Reply  Edit


Thanks for the input!

I heard from elsewhere that the pulley only had 3 ribs.
Had no idea it had so many negative effects.

superchargedtoy


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Pearl City HI

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (Kikoushi80) » Reply  Edit


I just put in the pulley bros pulley and have a hks oversized crank pulley. So far its good. Yeah, didnt like the 3rib belt idea but no one else sells a pulley for the sc for a decent price. You get what you pay i guess. Too bad i didnt see this thread earlier.
Kikoushi80


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350 posts [100%]

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (superchargedtoy) » Reply  Edit


Yeah, that sucks.

I am getting a lot of slippage using the NST pulley with stock s/c pulley.
Gotta get it pretty tight...

Can't imagine usin 3 ribs.

Hope there's not too much slippage.

superchargedtoy


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Pearl City HI

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (Kikoushi80) » Reply  Edit


So far no problems. I thinl its not bad for the price. A friend of mine in japan looked for sc pulleys, pprices start at $600 and up for pulley only. No magnet.
Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

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If you think a 180mm pulley gives you slip, try it with an SC14. I destroyed a s/c pulley bearing in only a few months with the amount of tension required to prevent the belt from slipping. I'm thinking about going with the pulley bros. for my SC14 though because I'm not afraid to reshim the blower to be able to use all 4 ribs.
XSVWGN




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265 posts [94%]
Wellington, New Zealand

 Re: (Crownvicman289) » Reply  Edit


that is a ridiculous sized pulley. The max size here in NZ that anyone uses is 175mm. Any bigger and yes you do put strain on the charger but you also put massive strain on the water pump.

On my sc14 i had some custom pulleys made so they were like cam gears and they never slipped. Like the gilmour pulleys that rotories use


Matt



sc14 4agze ae100 corolla wagon (previous)
4agte 20v ae100 corolla wagon (current)
96 Toyota Caldina - Daily driver
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San Diego CA

 Custom Pulleys » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by XSVWGN »
that is a ridiculous sized pulley. The max size here in NZ that anyone uses is 175mm. Any bigger and yes you do put strain on the charger but you also put massive strain on the water pump.

On my sc14 i had some custom pulleys made so they were like cam gears and they never slipped. Like the gilmour pulleys that rotories use


Matt


I have been considering some custom pulleys as well. How difficult was it to have them made?
Did you use specific pulleys as models for the new ones?
Did you alter the pulley sizes?



So long and thanks for all the fish! =)
KILLERGTZ


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722 posts [93%]
philadelphia pa

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Man I am really late to the party after being the first to post on this topic. I have never even heard of this 103mm pulley before. That seems like an extremely small pulley. wow. Has anyone run the sc14 pulley?
driftdas2000




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OH

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (Kikoushi80) » Reply  Edit


It seems the pulley bros 103mm pulley is just some a/c clutch pulley which happens to fit the supercharger. No work went into the development of the pulley. I'm think if getting the t3 crank pulley and just building the bottom end with a little higher compression to get more power.
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San Diego CA

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (driftdas2000) » Reply  Edit


superchargedtoy: So far no problems. I think its not bad for the price. A friend of mine in japan looked for sc pulleys, pprices start at $600 and up for pulley only. No magnet.

Actually, the Japanese smaller pulley, which costs about $600 or more, does come with a stator, but does not come with a clutch hub. However, it uses the same clutch hub that the jdm 120mm pulley uses, so a used one of these could be sourced for it, or you could order a new one from Japan, because they are still available, but of course are another $300-400. But then these are all Denso products, so you get what you pay for.

KILLERGTZ: Man I am really late to the party after being the first to post on this topic. I have never even heard of this 103mm pulley before. That seems like an extremely small pulley. wow. Has anyone run the sc14 pulley?

The sc14 pulley can't be swapped to the sc12, as their fittings are different.

driftdas2000: It seems the pulley bros 103mm pulley is just some a/c clutch pulley which happens to fit the supercharger. No work went into the development of the pulley. I'm think if getting the t3 crank pulley and just building the bottom end with a little higher compression to get more power.

The pulley bros 103mm pulley was not just an a/c pulley from another application. It was just a haphazard design that, unfortunately, was made to be used with the oem US sc12 clutch hub. Because the US sc12 clutch hub was designed to fit under a lip, built into the US (+ shaped) clutch pulley, it could sit farther in on the sc12 input shaft spline, and be shimmed quite easily. Using that same clutch hub on a much smaller pulley, for which no overhanging lip could be made on the pulley, because the clutch hub to be used with it was so big, meant that they would have been forced to offset the cutch hub on the sc12 splined shaft too much, if the pulley ribs were to maintain their proper alignmnent, so therefore they had to offset the pulley ribs instead, to bring the clutch hub in on the input shaft the proper distance, and that is why only three of the ribs will line up with it.

In the case of the jdm sc12 pulley, and the smaller, but more rare, Japanese 106mm clutched pulley, they both used an identical, but much smaller clutch hub that could still be fit under a small lip on these pulleys, and would therefore sit in on the sc12 splined shaft properly, and could also be shimmed normally.

Lastly, the combination of a 180mm crank pulley, and a small 103 or 106mm sc pulley will drive the sc well beyond the manufacturer's limits for the sc. The largest safe combination is 175-180mm crank pulley, used with a 120mm sc pulley, or a combination of a HKS 157mm crank pulley, and a 103-106mm sc pulley. Those combinations would bring the final sc rotational speed up to about 11k rpm, which is the manufacturer's limit.

The only real problem here is that pretty much all 4ag(z)e owners are notoriously cheap, and won't pay up for a quality part.



So long and thanks for all the fish! =)
Evo_lucian




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Saint Lucia, West Indies

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Nice write up



Dwight
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The only thing in life worse than being talked about is not being talked about

my site
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styku
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 Re: (Evo_lucian) » Reply  Edit


So if I have 180 mm crank pulley the only setup for SC is OEM 120 mm right?

Can anyone give some more info about japanese pulleys for sc12? Some links?

My Idea is small SC pulley + 160 mm NST crank Pulley.

My setup now gives 0,9 bar max.

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San Diego CA

 Re: (styku) » Reply  Edit


The crank 180mm and sc 120mm will move the top rotation speed to just a hair above the limit stated by Ogura who makes the sc12, but probably not enough to do major harm, if you treat it carefully. However, almost no one who adds these parts ever treats them properly, and soon destroy their sc's.

But the real drawback of using a solid sc pulley is that you'll almost always end up with an idle issue, since air won't be drawn through the sc at idle in the manner that it was designed for. You'll also tend to wear out your sc a lot sooner because of the constant driven rotation. These things aren't meant to take that kind of abuse. Under normal use conditions the sc is only driven a small fraction of your total driving time. The rest of the time it is free spinning.

There isn't much to tell about the Japanese sc pulley, and I mean singular. There are no secret multiple sources for these things. The only one made is from TBS (Technical Salon Base Side). Google them and you will find their site. Then do some translation, wander around the site, and you will find the sc pulley. However, like all other Japanese sites they do not have email (fax only), and they will not ship outside the country. You'll have to find someone to work as a go between. But, I can save you a lot of trouble right now by repeating that the complete pulley and clutch set-up sells for well over $1k, and that is why virtually no one over here, or pretty much anywhere else has one. Cheap, cheap, cheap!

The 106mm clutched pulley will work okay with a 160mm crank pulley, but again you would be ever so slightly over the highest recommended top rpm speed at redline. And if you add cams you'll end up going way over, with not good results. I am going to be using one with a custom 150mm crank pulley that will keep me just under the rpm limit, will only be using stock cams, and won't be bashing the rpms out of it. Sc's are meant to drastically improve torque, and also give pretty decent top end hp, and if used within those guidelines, without trying to rev the hell out of them all the time, they will last quite nicely.

Tell me, do you actually have an NST 160mm, and where did you get it?

Don't get too caught up with bar, or psi numbers, as those can fluctuate all over the place depending upon your setup, such as intercoolers, intercooler piping, customized headwork, state of the sc, etc. Most of the time higher bar/psi readings simply mean that someone has really high post sc air temps that are not being cooled down enough. Properly cooled post sc air will actually give you much better hp gains, while reading lower bar/hp levels.



So long and thanks for all the fish! =)
Smokestoomuch
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Palm Springs Ca

 Re: 4AGZE NST 180 Crank Pulley with EBay 103 S/C pulley (Kikoushi80) » Reply  Edit


I took the 4AGZE alternator pulley, turned it upside down and mounted in on an SC12. It spins twice the OEM speed. This cost me a grand total of 20 bucks to have the pulley welded on. I didn't even have to shim the pulley as it aligned with perfectly with the belt, the first time I put it on. Oh yeah, had to get a smaller SC belt down at the Zone, so add another $11.95.
styku
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 Re: (Q-Authority) » Reply  Edit


Thanks for fast reply. Not many 4agze specialists out there.

Well I just had my engine rebuild. Very nice mods. Ligthened crank, valves, rods also had my cams changed for NA 4age. 4agze are 232 or 234 4age are minmal longer like 240-246. I did it for better top end. Low end is more than ok.
And yes I was planning to install AEM standalone and rev it like 8000-8500. Engine itself is well prepared for it. You say with only 180 mm pulley 8000 and more rpm will kill SC? My 4agze stock with piggy revs now to somwhere like 7500.

Another question. I am just about to buy SC14. If not with SC12 I was planning to do the same with SC14. So small Pulleybros SC pulley and smaller crank pulley.
I see SC14 pulley is much better 1 PK extra. So should't be so much trouble like with PB SC12 pulley. Shoul I also use 150-160 mm crank pulley? Will 180 mm NST + oem SC14 work properly? What boost can I expect? I think this will be something like 15-17 PSI. Is SC14 any better for heavy duty use?

About 160 mm NST pulley. They don't have it shown but I think there is a chance to ask them for machining one. I have no problem with this. If they won't agree I will downsize my pulley. In Poland they did 175 mm pulley just having oem one. So they will be able to create new or make this smaller.

About my boost. It is very good I think. I mean I have very good intake temps. It is 8-15 degrees more than outside temp when moving. Never more than 25 even when car in't moving. I got 80-85 Celsius degrees from SC. My engine bay is well vented. It is WRC like Corolle so many small and big vents at front of the car and one big in the bonnet.

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San Diego CA

 Re: (styku) » Reply  Edit


Sounds like you are on the road to a decent engine setup, but I would be very careful about setting it up to rev so high, if you end up using a smaller sc pulley, and larger crank pulley. Yes, it's great to be able to rev it high, but when you have it set up for that you will generally be compromising something else, mainly bottom end torque, which is what the sc is all about. I've seen plenty of dynos on these things, and when you try pushing the rpms that high you will always end up loosing something at the bottom end. So be prepared to either be happey with a lot of bottom end torque, or upper end hp, but you can't really have both. It will still act somewhat like an NA engine in that regard.

The 4age cams were a good move, and I use them as well. They have just a little bit of extra lift and duration, but not enough to seriously compromise the bottom end, and they will give you just a little bit better high end. If you use cam gears with them I have seen a couple of dynos that have shown really great hp curves at the top end. Much better looking than with the 4agz cams.

If you really need the extra hp just go ahead and switch to the sc14. It will pump more air on its own, and you won't have to mess so much with really large crank pulleys or smaller sc pulleys. But be warned, it still has the same rpm limitations, so if you do use differrent pulleys you have to be careful with them as well. I would definitely stay within the same guidelines, as far as sizes go. I think the oem sc14 pulley is about the same size as a jdm sc12 pulley, 120mm, so it can be used with a 175-180mm crank pulley, or you can use the small sc pulley and a slightly larger crank pulley, as you had possibly planned witht he sc12.

However, I haven't heard of hardly anyone using a combination like that on the sc14 because it generally adds so much hp by itself. They usually just add a larger crank pulley and reach the 15-17 psi range with just that, which is pretty high for an sc on a 4agze. However, it takes a lot of work to customize everything to make the sc14 fit, so its use is not really wide spread.

I would stay away from the PB pulley because you have to use a 3pk belt with it, which can cause tension problems, and because you have to tighten it so much that it can cause premature bearing wear on the sc and water pump. I asked about the 160mm NST because I actually had one once that I had them custom make for me, but that was back a few years ago, when they actually used to list it. Mine was the only one I had ever heard of.

I've had a company in New Zealand, Endeavor Engineering, make me a custom 155mm crank pulley. They use a small steel center and a large aluminum outer pulley section. It is very well make, and the steel center won't ever have any of the keyway issues that sometimes show up on the large aluminum ones. Iwent that way because I really wanted something unique, and I did not want to over drive the water pump, and also did not want to have to remove the timing pointer, and then have to figure out a new way to set the timing, which is a pain in the @ss with a larger crank pulley. It will work perfectly with the 106mm clutched pulley. And the small sc pulley is great because it is actually made by Denso, however, it is only made for TBS. You can't get it anywhere else.

A good standalone is a great idea, especially when using various sized pulleys, as getting the mixture, and timing right can be very critical. However, they should usually be used to make the most out of the rpm range that you already have, not to necessarily increase the rpm range so much, at least with an sc.

Well, it sounds like you've got the intercooler doing its job, so that is a plus. Just be careful with the sc and crank pulley sizes, and don't get too greedy, so that your setup will last a long time.



So long and thanks for all the fish! =)
Smokestoomuch
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Palm Springs Ca

 Re: (styku) » Reply  Edit


Styku: You're saying the NA 4AGE's all have longer duration cams? Do you know how the lifts compare to a 4AGZE cam?

You have a lot of thoughtful mods there. You might consider filling in your intake manifold to raise the velocity of your incoming air. It's a real easy mod once you know what to use. I started out using hi-tech high temperature plastics (a 2-part epoxy) but got kind of scared of it when it burned off in the oven. I changed over to a metal filler called High Temp Metal Lab. That stuff is the real deal. It's basically an inert powder suspended in acetone. I filled the valve pockets with playdo up to the valve guides then turned the head over (like it goes on the block) and poured the Metal Lab down the ports until the height at the turn (just before the valve guides) was ~ 2/3rds the diameter of the valve head. Done. The nice thing about this mod is that it not only increases HP but it increases it over the whole rev range.

styku
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 Re: (Smokestoomuch) » Reply  Edit


To be honest. I will work with 4agze untill it will give me an advantage over other cars. Car will be used for time attacks etc. But only untill it.
So I was able to make preetty stock 4agze to show 200 hp at crankshaft. It was good. But engine bearing went broke. So with new cranshaft we did some serious mods. 220 hp is what I can expect with SC12. If it won't be enough SC14 and if this still won't be enough twincharging. But I would like to stay as low with horsepower as possible. This will enlong engine's live.

But after your advice I will for sure never sum small SC with big crank pulley. Rather I will go small crank and small SC.
Yes I have cam gears just for making top end nicer.
About SC14 - just what I thought. It has only little bit longer rotors inside. The rest is the same as in SC12.
I hope to be ok with SC12 to overperform other cars. But you never know that.
I know Endeavour Engeneering.
Well I had also a small problem with one of 175 mm pulleys. The guy who made them just exchanged a central part of it to steel.

So you don't recommend PB at all? SC14 pulley should be better because of the one PK extra. 25% less belt slip.
And looks like the only way to buy better and clutched pulley is a hard way and expensive way.
What is TBS?

To mr Smokestoomuch. Why don't you stop?


I dot't completely understand. But I think we did something opposite. Diameters are bigger velocity of air maybe lower. But remember aerodynamics. We did it all to have as much cold air as possible.


And finally rare intake.

This should work fine. What do you think?


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San Diego CA

 Re: (styku) » Reply  Edit


Sounds like you pretty much know what you are doing. Just remember that this only a 1600cc engine you're working with. These things can only put out so much hp, and as you start climbing over 200hp or so, you are probably looking at shortening the life of the engine assembly significantly with each and ever mod you add to it.

For what you are trying to do, I would definitely avoid the PB. If it was only to be used on a generally stock engine I might say okay, but the stress you would be putting on it would just be too much. What PB really needs to do is to redesign the SC12 pulley to use a smaller clutch plate, like the one on the 120mm jdm sc12. Using the larger one doesn't allow them to offset the pulley ribs properly. It can obviously be done, but it is unlikely that they will bother to.

TBS is the nickname for 'Technical Salon Base Side', the Japanese aw11 specialist I have mentioned.

In the end it comes down to either reliability or major hp gains, as with all engines.



So long and thanks for all the fish! =)
styku
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 Re: (Q-Authority) » Reply  Edit


True

Let's see what my dyno will show. I'll let you know. Then we will discuss.

AE92_GT-Z
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Berlin Germany

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my Pulley from SC14 (Previa) have 113mm



Toyota Corolla AE92 Seca "4A-GZE"

AE92_GT-Z
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Berlin Germany

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how much HP have their with NST 180 Crank Pulley an SC14 charger and how many boost ?




Toyota Corolla AE92 Seca "4A-GZE"

Crownvicman289




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1984 posts [58%]
Colorado Springs CO

  » Reply  Edit


When I ran NST 180mm on my SC14 I had a 120mm SC12 pulley installed. With a big ol' front mount and 2.5" intercooler piping (and 70mm blower inlet piping), I saw around 15psi on the top end. I later dropped to around 14psi with a 170mm crank pulley on the same setup (kept breaking 180mm NST pulleys).
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