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 aw11 20v swap??First  1 2 >  Last
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86_mr2
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3 posts [100%]
north branch mn

 aw11 20v swap?? Reply  Edit


will a blacktop 20v bolt right into a an aw11 and the c50 trani?? what mods will i need to do??


Randomist
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259 posts [98%]
MT MEE QLD

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (86_mr2) » Reply  Edit


alot
it will fit the engine mounts, but you want a c52 or better gearbox, and you will need to re-wire your harness and run a aftermarket ecu plus a bit of other stuffing around,

http://www.padandwheels.com/mr....html




AW 11 - the original and the best

86_mr2
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north branch mn

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Randomist) » Reply  Edit


alright thanks im just bouncing around some ideas. thanks. how about a 3sge? are thw mounts still the same from those two body styles??
Randomist
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259 posts [98%]
MT MEE QLD

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (86_mr2) » Reply  Edit


no but there is a company in america that can sell you the engine mounts and lend you a jig to weld them in, it is possible to figure it all out yourself though,

http://www.speed-source.net/products/3sgte.htm

ive bought parts for my aw11 here, they seem very knowledgable, you could ask them about the swap they have done plenty

i dont like the 3sge motor but thats just my personal opinion, the ones i have seen go very hardcore so its a worthwhile mod.

will be alot harder than the 20valve but alot better if you plan to turbo




AW 11 - the original and the best

86_mr2
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north branch mn

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Randomist) » Reply  Edit


oh alright cool. thanks alot that doesnt look to hard according to there instcutions. mounst are kinda spendy though
Randomist
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259 posts [98%]
MT MEE QLD

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (86_mr2) » Reply  Edit


yeah they are, but the good thing is you can always make your own, i tend to look at these sites for ideas then just knock my own one up




AW 11 - the original and the best

Mulder




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284 posts [99%]
sandpoint id

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Randomist) » Reply  Edit


I think that a C50 tranny would still work. As far as I know, it's completely interchangeable with the C52. The only difference is internal stuff being more durable.

The 20v swap is fairly easy. You'll need to modify cooling system, fuel hose from filter to engine, throttle cable needs to be re-routed/extended, custom exhaust setup, and the wiring is the hardest part. You can pay a couple people about $300, send them your harnesses, and they'll send you back one plug and play harness. Best $300 I ever spent.

But it bolts right into the engine just fine and makes for a fun ride.

3SGE is a much more complicated swap with a lot of custom work to axles, engine mounts, etc.



-Mulder
Black '86 MR2 20v

-I may be small but I am strong and I'll get it on with you!

Mulder




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sandpoint id

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


PS Most people spend $2500-$3500 on the 20v swap.



-Mulder
Black '86 MR2 20v

-I may be small but I am strong and I'll get it on with you!

aw11gt




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 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


Dang $2500-$3500 for a 20v swap....thats a lot, i paid $900 for engine,wire harness,custom header and b-pipe, than i paid 100 for the bt ecu and 250 for mr220v bt conversion.
Mulder




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284 posts [99%]
sandpoint id

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (aw11gt) » Reply  Edit


Yeah, you can do it super cheap too, but most people will want to do things like replace the clutch and rear main seal at the same time. All those little things add up. Welding on the new exhaust, new coolant lines, longer fuel line, etc. There are a lot of old worn out parts on our cars, and it's the perfect time to replace a lot of them. Do you want to use the stock pressure plate? It will slip badly when launching at 5k RPM.

One of my friends spent $2500 and cut a ton of corners. For example, instead of getting a longer fuel line, he just unbolted his fuel filter from the firewall and it just hangs out suspended from a zip tie to bring it 6 inches closer to the engine so he didnt have to spend $70 on a new fuel line. But for myself, I bought a new fuel line, and I also bought a new fuel filter because 208k miles is more than enough on a fuel filter. In the end, I spent $7000 on the swap by rebuilding the engine (with forged goodies), tranny, and replacing nearly every old or worn part in the engine bay, relocating battery, new clutch MC, slave, press plate, clutch, new axles, new alternator, new starter, etc etc etc.



-Mulder
Black '86 MR2 20v

-I may be small but I am strong and I'll get it on with you!

Randomist
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MT MEE QLD

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


yeah and for that kinda of money i could have popped out and bought a brand new 9age 20v 2litre race motor with a dry sump that makes around 300hp at a billion rpm, and put it in with a 6spd conversion.

Or gone ape on the motor i got and made just about the same, or put in a v6 for alot less

i dont understand why people want 20 valves so badly?




AW 11 - the original and the best

Mulder




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sandpoint id

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Randomist) » Reply  Edit


Yes, that much money can do a lot. For me, I chose to do the 20v because I had no experience with engine swaps, and it was a great first swap for someone with no experience and no welding skills. It doesnt get much easier than using something with the same engine mounts and tranny.

If I were going to do another one, I would feel comfortable now attempting a 3SGTE swap. The 20v isnt anything that will rock your world, but it's a nice level of power to make the car just a little more more and capable. And I love that high revving sound of the 4AGE.



-Mulder
Black '86 MR2 20v

-I may be small but I am strong and I'll get it on with you!

Randomist
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259 posts [98%]
MT MEE QLD

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


yeah, its awesome when people have to change gears and your still climbing, i shorted the ecu limiter, so now i just change when the dial gets to 8500, its starts to sound weaker but some better cams, yum

i love to see the look on theyre faces when you get up around 8000

if i wanted a 3sgte, i go buy a sw20

they are comfier faster and handle better, i got the aw11 cause its brute force and savage




AW 11 - the original and the best

Randomist
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259 posts [98%]
MT MEE QLD

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Randomist) » Reply  Edit


maybe just n2 spec your 20valve

i seen some very nice ones in japan, only revved to 9000 but made alot of power




AW 11 - the original and the best

hellbillylarry
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317 posts [99%]
Marietta GA

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (Randomist) » Reply  Edit


You'll want a c52 with the intake mounted starter otherwise you'll have to extend your header to clear it.

You'll need a custom downpipe.

new 4 wire DENSO o2 sensor

Wiring mr220v 350 bucks PnP.

Some coolant hoses, Side to Side racing has a kit

a fuel line another side 2 side piece

I think that's it. There is some stuff to take off the 16v but thats selv explainatory.

All in all it's a VERY easy swap. MUCH eaiser than 20ving a 8-6.

You should be burning gas for 1,500 depending on what you pay for your engine


Modified by hellbillylarry at 2:54 PM 4/8/2010

Randomist
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259 posts [98%]
MT MEE QLD

 Re: aw11 20v swap?? (hellbillylarry) » Reply  Edit


1500, wow

years ago i remember it being nearly that for a short mtor

its only gonna get cheaper as its more comon i suppose, and your right, its heaps easier than a ae86, but its just as easy to chuck in some cams and a itb set and zorst and make the same sorta power.

its he winkie factor that makes people do it i guess




AW 11 - the original and the best

mr220v


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1246 posts [100%]
Atlanta GA

  » Reply  Edit


Most cammed 16v's are still going to come up short of a 20v. The 16v that manages to make the same peak hp as a 20v is going to be weaker in the lower rpm range.

It seems like you can pick up a 20v for the same price as a set of 16v cams.

Silvertops have been swapped for as little as $1000.



Email questions to mr220v@gmail.com
Randomist
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MT MEE QLD

 Re: (mr220v) » Reply  Edit


yeah, as more and more ae101's go to car heave the motors will get cheaper.

as ive said before i think 20valves are pov and thats just my opinion and nothing else, i always wanted one, when i was 12, i even have a shirt with a mr2 on it and the number plate is 4ag 20v.

and they may also be more expensive where i live i still see them fetching 2000 for a motor over here, sometimes as cheap as 800, im not sure how good the motor is though, i figure for the same bang for buck i could get more out of a 9age.

the extra 300 cc should more than make up the low rpm on a 20v and it will make alot more up around 9000




AW 11 - the original and the best

mr220v


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1246 posts [100%]
Atlanta GA

  » Reply  Edit


Using aftermarket parts is where budgets start to explode. Like I mentioned before, you can get a 20v for the same price as a set of aftermarket 16v cams. That's to say nothing of the supporting parts and the rebuild you'll be doing.

The cost of the 9ag would be very high. That project requres tons of custom parts. A 7age could be done cheaply though.

I've been wanting a little more out of my aw11 lately. Instead of fighting the problems of building a 20v to make 200hp though one mechanism or another, I just went with a beams 3sge. I'd say the beams 3sge is getting to be my favorite engine.



Email questions to mr220v@gmail.com
Randomist
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259 posts [98%]
MT MEE QLD

 Re: (mr220v) » Reply  Edit


yeah, if they existed over here i woulkd get one, but the couple that are over here are already in other cars so im using local components to make the 9age out of junk yard parts and if i cant a n2 spec 7age will have to do




AW 11 - the original and the best

rooster
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solvay newyork

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i just got an 86 mr 2 outta some1s garage that had been sittin for the last 8 years an it runs good an the body is in good shape i live in new your an this car has never seen a winter its alot of fun 2 drive bur i would like 2 make some engine mods an get it beyond its stock hp it came w/ a remanufactured engine an tranny both have low miles where do i begin an how do i know if its an aw11 or an sw or a zzw
Mulder




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284 posts [99%]
sandpoint id

 Re: (rooster) » Reply  Edit


85-89 MR2's are AW11's (the code for the whole car) and came with 16 4AGE engines or 16v 4AGZE (supercharged) engines in 87+.

91-99 MR2's are SW20's and came with 5SFE (naturally aspirated 2.2L) engine or the 3SGTE (turbo 2.0 liter) engine.

2000-2005 Mr2's are zzw..whatever the code is and came with 1ZZGE (maybe the wrong numbers letters there) 1.8 liter naturally aspirated engines. Not as familiar with the 3rd gen.

So you have an AW11 with a 16v 4AGE engine. The easiest power mods will come from cams and cam gears, but as was previously mentioned you can buy a 20v 4AGE engine for that price and swap it in. The 20v 4AGE was on the Japanese Only Coroalla AE101 (silvertop engine) and AE111 (blacktop engine) in the 90's. It makes 160HP and 165HP respecitively, versus the stock 112HP in the 16v 4AGE. It accomplished this by having higher compression, 5 valves/cylinder instead of 4, VVT, quad throttles, and other small changes. It's a very easy swap because the block is virtually the same as the 16v 4AGE and bolts right in to the same engine mounts and the same tranny.



-Mulder
Black '86 MR2 20v

-I may be small but I am strong and I'll get it on with you!

rooster
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solvay newyork

 Re: (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


as i can see from prior posts that there is alota work an other parts that need 2 b changed when installing that head from intake 2 ecu im not sure what model tranny i have on there but i dont even begin 2 know where 2 find that head
Mulder




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284 posts [99%]
sandpoint id

 Re: (rooster) » Reply  Edit


You dont just buy the head, you buy the whole engine. The heads are not interchangeable between the 16v and 20v. The blocks are nearly the same, but coolant and oil passages are slightly different. But it's an easy swap because engine mounts and tranny mounts are exactly the same. You can buy the engine on ebay, or from just about any engine import company that imports JDM engines. Silvertop 20v engines go for $600 to $1000 depending on their shape and who is selling them and how good of a deal you search for. Blacktop 20v engines go for $800 to $1300 generally.



-Mulder
Black '86 MR2 20v

-I may be small but I am strong and I'll get it on with you!

rooster
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solvay newyork

 Re: (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


thanks man altho i gotta admit im kinda scared of ebay
Mulder




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284 posts [99%]
sandpoint id

 Re: (rooster) » Reply  Edit


Rightfully so. I've yet to see myself or any of my friends get a perfect engine. The first one I bought had a dented oil pan, broken mail pulley, broken oil cap, some broken connectors...etc.

The second one I bought had a lot of sludge inside.

I didnt buy either of them on ebay, I got them from local importers for cheap. $550 and $700 respectively.



-Mulder
Black '86 MR2 20v

-I may be small but I am strong and I'll get it on with you!

rooster
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solvay newyork

 Re: (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


those r both relatively inexpencive from what ive seen out right now unless ur talkin engine alone but im kinda amazed that these engines r relatively inexpencibe i seen a black top w/ ecu tranny gearbox an all the fixins for 1399 fre shiping an alota pics the tranny was a 6 spd but i think im gunna go the 20 valve route rather than just try boost up the 16 valve that i have now
rooster
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solvay newyork

 Re: (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


just outta curiousity when i get the 20 valve engine i was thinkin about putin on a turbo while i have the engine outta the car an i was wondering if the engine internals an gearbox an driveshafts would be strong enough 2 support that kinda power ? not sure how much boost id run on it prbly not more than 15 psi
Mulder




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284 posts [99%]
sandpoint id

 Re: (rooster) » Reply  Edit


You'll need to tear apart the engine and install lower compression forged pistons. The 20v comes with 10.5:1 compression (Silvertop) or 11:1 compression (blacktop). To run boost you'd need race gas with that compression.



-Mulder
Black '86 MR2 20v

-I may be small but I am strong and I'll get it on with you!

rooster
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52 posts [98%]
solvay newyork

 Re: (Mulder) » Reply  Edit


is that the oly advantage 2 the blacktop over the silver the higher compression or r the cams an lifters an maping system diff 2?
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