Included Logo Page

The Old CLUB4AG FORUM ARCHIVE

For reference only, all new posts and communications should be posted in the new forums at http://club4ag.com/forums

 
 

 

My Profile | Active Users | Member List | Search


Print  Email  Subscribe  RSS  Help
 20v water line kit or diy method?First  1 2 >  Last
Author Post
iamjapanman
Member

Offline

146 posts [100%]
Irvine CA

 20v water line kit or diy method? Reply  Edit


I'm doing a 20v silvertop swap into my sr5 and I'm at the point where I need to choose which water line relocation method I should do.
> I would rather not cherry-pick my engine out as its already mounted but if I have to, I'll do it.
> Also, I'd like to retain the original FWD water route (btw are there any advantages and disadvantages of keeping this route?).
> Let's also assume I have no hindrance financially (I wish this was true...).
> Going to be daily driven before seeing any track experience (in other words, keep heater available).
> I have the 20v water pump, housing, and neck.

pros and cons are appreciated for any of the options in the polls.
thanks.

Modified by iamjapanman at 3:48 PM 2/21/2011



Poll » Results

SP-tec water line kit (73%, 68 votes)
 
DIY Block off plates method (13%, 12 votes)
 
Techno Toy Tuning water line kit (8%, 8 votes)
 
other? (4%, 4 votes)
 
RS chita water line kit (0%, 0 votes)
 
(92 votes)



Ghost Rider
Member



Offline

644 posts [99%]
Belgrade MT

 Re: 20v water line kit or diy method? (iamjapanman) » Reply  Edit


I vote for the DIY method.

There is even a way to keep the 20v water pump. You need to find a inline remote thermostat and a metal plate. The thermostat below is a 1.25 in like the coolant hoses. And the metal plate below is deep enough to shave out and not have to weld anything. (you might have to measure how wide you will need, I just found it and haven't measured mine yet)

http://www.meziere.com/ps-571-540-wn0071.aspx

http://www.speedymetals.com/pc....aspx

But that's what I can help with, other than the elbow to weld/have someone else weld. that's pretty much all you will need.

Ghost



***WTB levin Headlights, a r&p without a whine, and a pair of celica supra's***
elmerkit
Member

Offline

351 posts [100%]
carson la

  » Reply  Edit


Ghost rider is right diy method would be the perfect mod to keep the oem fittings and pump plus it remains all original spec.



"On sale Itp tires and ATV tires"

zlidewayz
Member



Offline

2193 posts [99%]
CenCal CA

 Re: 20v water line kit or diy method? (iamjapanman) » Reply  Edit


same goes for T3 but its pricy



"Living the ae86 life" ...what other way to enjoi driving then to drive zidewayz

Thumbs up to Eric at RhysMillenRacing

Also in need of super clean Driver and Passenger Fenders email me

BEST FORM OF CONTACT= zmanae86@yahoo.com

morgan
Member



Offline

6446 posts [93%]
just be glad your not here, nj

  » Reply  Edit


if you study the rwd and fwd coolant flow, you will realize that the fwd goes to teh head, intake side, first. the rwd goes to the head, exhaust side, first. this can throw the computer off by changing to rwd flow.

in rwd, it goes into head, thru exhaust side, thru intake side, thru block.
in fwd it goes into head, intake side, then block then exhaust side.

the changes in temps might throw it off a little bit. i personally chose the rwd flow, and put a 5 degree lower thermostat in and havent seen any problems. of course, i have nothing to compare it to.



haha cali...i got one of you 86's, and your not getting it back.
my 20v in an 86 swap guide
my mess of an 86...
*east coast toyotas forum*
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
rhymz
Member

Offline

474 posts [95%]
Georgetown

  » Reply  Edit


y not just use piping to extend the lines to the radiator?

well at least that is what i did and it doesnt overheat and costed basically nothing because a friend gave me the pipe and i had alot of radiator hoses around

iamjapanman
Member

Offline

146 posts [100%]
Irvine CA

  » Reply  Edit


thanks for all your insights. keep it coming.

steve (yosuke) also gave me an advice that some diy methods are prone to leak if not done correctly. being a noob, i would feel more confident using a kit.

Yosuke




Offline

1814 posts [100%]
The OC

 Re: (iamjapanman) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by iamjapanman »
thanks for all your insights. keep it coming.

steve (yosuke) also gave me an advice that some diy methods are prone to leak if not done correctly. being a noob, i would feel more confident using a kit.

Hey masa, look into Sam_Q's kit if you're on a budget

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=83506



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JZA80 Supra
AE86 Levin


iamjapanman
Member

Offline

146 posts [100%]
Irvine CA

  » Reply  Edit


cool, ill take a look at it as well.
thanks!
HASportAE86
IE Gutter Trash



Offline

4096 posts [84%]
Loma Linda CA

 Re: (iamjapanman) » Reply  Edit


Do the JSP mod. Best $300 you will ever spend and it is THEE CLEANEST coolant routing available.

Drilling the head is not hard at all. If you stick your finger in the heater ports in the 20v head, you can literally feel where you can cut and where you would drill into ports....

I think alot of people over look this mod because they are afraid they will mess up the head....

-20v water pump with the fins trimmed to fit in the RWD housing
-20v pump pulley
-16v rwd housing
-Cut/re weld the 20v upper radiator neck
-Weld bypass port on 16v rwd housing shut



Email/Paypal "heyvanilladan@hotmail.com"

SwangBiz Chassis Products
http://forums.club4ag.com/zero...age=1
MFactory Longer T50 5th Gear Group Buy
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=113077
Loud Pipes Save Lives -Swangbiz

Honda Master Technician/ASE Master Technician

HASportAE86
IE Gutter Trash



Offline

4096 posts [84%]
Loma Linda CA

 Re: 20v water line kit or diy method? (iamjapanman) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by iamjapanman »
I'm doing a 20v silvertop swap into my sr5 and I'm at the point where I need to choose which water line relocation method I should do.
> I would rather not cherry-pick my engine out as its already mounted but if I have to, I'll do it.
> Also, I'd like to retain the original FWD water route (btw are there any advantages and disadvantages of keeping this route?).
> Let's also assume I have no hindrance financially (I wish this was true...).
> Going to be daily driven before seeing any track experience (in other words, keep heater available).
> I have the 20v water pump, housing, and neck.

pros and cons are appreciated for any of the options in the polls.
thanks.<br /><br />
Modified by iamjapanman at 3:48 PM 2/21/2011

-You will have to pull the head.
-I have retained my heater by adding on a fitting to the upper radiator neck
-I have seen no disadvantage cooling wise. I drilled 3 very small holes in my thermostat to allow for minimal bypass until fully warm when the thermostat opens and allows full flow.


Modified by HASportAE86 at 3:36 PM 2/27/2011



Email/Paypal "heyvanilladan@hotmail.com"

SwangBiz Chassis Products
http://forums.club4ag.com/zero...age=1
MFactory Longer T50 5th Gear Group Buy
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=113077
Loud Pipes Save Lives -Swangbiz

Honda Master Technician/ASE Master Technician

HASportAE86
IE Gutter Trash



Offline

4096 posts [84%]
Loma Linda CA

 Re: (morgan) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by morgan »
this can throw the computer off by changing to rwd flow.

Depends on where you mount the sensor



Email/Paypal "heyvanilladan@hotmail.com"

SwangBiz Chassis Products
http://forums.club4ag.com/zero...age=1
MFactory Longer T50 5th Gear Group Buy
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=113077
Loud Pipes Save Lives -Swangbiz

Honda Master Technician/ASE Master Technician

morgan
Member



Offline

6446 posts [93%]
just be glad your not here, nj

 Re: (HASportAE86) » Reply  Edit


recomendations?



haha cali...i got one of you 86's, and your not getting it back.
my 20v in an 86 swap guide
my mess of an 86...
*east coast toyotas forum*
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
Grant
Member



Offline

3656 posts [86%]
San Jose ca

  » Reply  Edit


If you add a block-off plate to the back that has a route on the rear, you don't need to take the head off/modify it at all. I drilled a hole into the back of the block off plate to attach the 16v rear heater outlet. End result was no mods to the had, retained heater, and it looks factory.

But you have to have enough bypass to let the thermostat see hot water temps from the head. This is one area that I didn't do a good job at but it's fixed now.

Anyways, total cost including a new 16v water pump was $100



Stand Alone ECU tuning. Message me for details.

Looking to buy a corolla manual rack and a TRD 3 gear transmission.
*also wtb 4 point roll cage/bar for ae86 coupe

Sam_Q
Member



Offline

579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: 20v water line kit or diy method? (iamjapanman) » Reply  Edit


iamjapanman: I can offer my parts, on my site I tell you exactly what is and isn't good about every one of my parts, something I am still waiting for others to do. It's here:

s-86.com

There is an email on the contact page but please avoid using the PM service on here as I am not notified of when I get them. If you want an information overload into all aspects of this conversion there is an article on my site also that covers many parts of cooling system conversions. Any questions- ask.


morgan: part of the flow is changed but it has no real world effect that I or anyone else have found yet. Running a cooler thermostat is a good idea though. What I find funny is people go for the original water path because it's better and then fit open trumpets, a bit odd.


rhymz: that's takes a lot of time and although subjective it's very cluttered and messy, also many people who do this don't bother plumbing in a thermostat which is very wrong.

Yosuke: thanks, I didn't even appear in the survey! hehehe I am unsure what I have to do to get the word out.


HASportAE86: I think that's far from the cleanest conversion, also doesn't the head have to come off for welding? Where would the sensors go on this install? the top hose?

What I don't like about this is that I think it looks rough (but that's just me), can't be reversed or swapped and a bit of time is needed to get it done. I do however agree that using the 16V pump is quick and easy. So is the $300 for welding?






My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

Sam_Q
Member



Offline

579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: 20v water line kit or diy method? (killer_siller) » Reply  Edit


which brand electric water pumps are available where you are?

are they all externally mounted ones?



My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

dr.occa




Offline

2382 posts [93%]
The Lonestar State

  » Reply  Edit


I'm actively pursuing an electric H2O pump as well. Maintain an ideal coolant flow (usually just above idle speed per application) through out the rpm range for optimal cooling stream. I would expect water pump life to be extended as well. One obvious draw back is having no indication if the pump stops running except for a climbing temp gauge.

Yeah, I was also expecting the SQ engineering water kit to be a well known option by now.



86 Garage Magazine
"Strictly All Things 86"
Jtek




Offline

10367 posts [100%]
Portland OR

  » Reply  Edit


For my silvertop, I ground out the rear wall HASport mentioned and welded the rear 2 open ports up, but I didn't drill holes in the t-stat or had a bypass valve, but never overheated.

cut and welded the stock 20v water pipe from water pump to cylinder head to point closest to the radiator as possible and used 3TC downpipe and 2 couplers to connect it all.

For the rear I used stock 16v water pump, mounting plate, metal hard lines to heater core and used 16v rear water plate/tube piece (yes it fits 20v head, just gotta move a stud) and voila.

Total cost=$0 lol helps to know someone who can weld aluminum.

Jtek




Offline

10367 posts [100%]
Portland OR

  » Reply  Edit


http://img440.imageshack.us/im...0.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/im...2.jpg


Sam_Q
Member



Offline

579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: (Jtek) » Reply  Edit


well that's basic yet effective

where did you put your sensors?



My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

seymour86




Offline

1500 posts [99%]
Canyon Country CA

 Re: 20v water line kit or diy method? (Ghost Rider) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Ghost Rider »
I vote for the DIY method.

There is even a way to keep the 20v water pump. You need to find a inline remote thermostat and a metal plate. The thermostat below is a 1.25 in like the coolant hoses. And the metal plate below is deep enough to shave out and not have to weld anything. (you might have to measure how wide you will need, I just found it and haven't measured mine yet)

http://www.meziere.com/ps-571-540-wn0071.aspx

http://www.speedymetals.com/pc....aspx

But that's what I can help with, other than the elbow to weld/have someone else weld. that's pretty much all you will need.

Ghost

Just FYI I would go 6061-T6 for the metal just incase you need someone to weld to it. The material you have shown is 7075 and is not readily weldable due to the higher volumes of zinc it has in it. I would just hate to see you do a bunch of work and end up needing a little something welded and not being able to.



rseymour86@gmail.com

Short Stroke conversions http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=111245

Jtek




Offline

10367 posts [100%]
Portland OR

  » Reply  Edit


My friend welded too many ports so I have no engine temp sensor for the gauge, but I used a strange water neck from mr2 (I think...) that has a fan switch on it that I put ecu temp sensor in.
Sam_Q
Member



Offline

579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: (Jtek) » Reply  Edit


why don't you stick your other sensor in the blocked off port in the side of the head next to your exhaust flange?



My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

gotzoom
Member



Offline

961 posts [99%]
Silicon Valley CA

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


All of the temp sensors use pipe threads, so you will either need to get a BPT bung or tap for the factory sensors or NPT for US equivalent sensors. I would expect the tap(s) to be under $30 if you need to buy them. Bungs are fairly cheap (~$5)



Bay Area Autocross Forum
85 Corolla GTS Mild mannered road car
86 Corolla GTS Time Attack build in progress
99 Sport Miata CS #94
02 Miata daily driver chick car
Sam_Q
Member



Offline

579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: (gotzoom) » Reply  Edit


actually the ECU sensor is M12 and the dash temp is M16



My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

kouki1986
Member



Offline

1232 posts [100%]
honolulu hawaii

  » Reply  Edit


why so many people vote for sp-tec? im actually in a market of water line kit so a little advice is needed.



http://www.carbonfibercollection.com

carbonfibercollection@yahoo.com

Sam_Q
Member



Offline

579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: (kouki1986) » Reply  Edit


the SP-Tec is a basic kit that just runs pipes and has something to direct the water off the back of the head. I don't however see any provision for a therostat?

The good is compared to the other jap kits it's probably one of the cheaper ones. Also although very bulky the rear block is very nicely machined and the bottom radiator hose fitting will clear the idle control valve.

The bad apart from the potentional thermostat thing is that there is limited to no brackets for the hard piping so you need to make something there unless you really like zip ties, it's bulky at the back and you still have two ugly pipes down the side of the engine. Also the heater outlet is on the wrong side so you will need like an S shape behind your engine.

Well that's my unbiasted answer anyway, if someone thinks I am wrong I want to hear it.


Might you be interested in one of my kits?

http://s-86.com/s-parts-coolingkits.html



My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

kouki1986
Member



Offline

1232 posts [100%]
honolulu hawaii

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


I know billyandrea purchased your water line kit and he said that it's more bang for your buck. Well, aside from being one of the inexpensive water line kit in the market. please tell me what so good about your product compare to other water line kits out there?



http://www.carbonfibercollection.com

carbonfibercollection@yahoo.com

Sam_Q
Member



Offline

579 posts [99%]
Australia vic

 Re: (kouki1986) » Reply  Edit


well how about I do something that none of the other companies do- tell you what's good and bad about the kit.

good:


- Guaranteed: known to work on and off the racetrack in all conditions even with high boost. This kind of kit was tested on my own car for many years before making it on a larger scale for my buisness. Tested to have no performance difference between this and any other cooling type. If there is ever a problem then it will be supported if your the original owner or not. No proof of purchase needed.

- Price: as mentioned this is cheaper than by a factor of over double of anything else on the market it seems.

- OEM parts: uses the original front and back halves of the 20v pump without any physical mods at all.

- thinnest: at only 25mm (1") off the back of the head and when the heater option is chosen the kit comes with a gearbox spacer plate to make extra room at the back off the heater core hoses.

- custom options: heater outlet fitted only if wanted, or for older corollas, starlets and celicas the heater outlet is made to face the oppersite direction. Sensor threads for aftermarket gauges also added for no extra cost. Have only what you want and don't plug holes.

- Sensor mounting: Normally twin sensor holes come with the top of the plate: dash temp and ecu temp, but custom options are available. These neatly fit both facing up so well protected and out of the way. Although some people like modding the head and putting a flat plate on they often end up putting the sensors stick straight out which is asking for damage.

- Ease of install: Front thermostat outlet (kit 1) is pre assembled ready to install on the head. All the other parts fit easily on unless stated so.

- Extra gear: Kit comes with either high tensile silver zinc bolts or stainless, both in button head. Also all gaskets included which are cut out of high temperature rubber gasket material.

- Fitment: everything in this kit unless stated otherwise fits right on, it seems normal for people to have to trim things here and there to make something bolt up, Quite bluntly I think that's crap and shouldn't happen. The water outlets fit without changing anything on the intake, even the vacuum lines under it.

- Instructions and support: full instructions given with multiple pictures but otherwise help will be given via email. The whole cooling kit is very easy to install though with no special tools.

- Looks: the rear bypass is made to suit the shape of the head and the front pipe made to also look like it's meant to be there. No aweful and bulky external pipes.


The bad:

-ISCV: if the bypass is fitted with a right hand heater outlet like for an ae86 then the idle control valve needs to be moved. Instructions given on how to easily solve this.

- tensioner: if the original alternator tensioner is used off the 20v with the water outlet from my kit 1 then a small relief needs to be cut into the top of it, pictures provided. Also a slight bend of the dip-stick tube.

- Hoses: the OEM hoses will not fit right on, they need to be extended to reach.

That's the main part, I think I am starting to sound more like a salesman every day. The main thing is though that whatever you decide to choose demand that the kit will bolt right up without modification and that the support is there when you need it. Doing a home job is an option too as I have helped many people to do so even though it's probably costing me in sales.





My website - conversion parts, articles, services...

s-86.com

-20v RWD conversion parts for sale

kouki1986
Member



Offline

1232 posts [100%]
honolulu hawaii

 Re: (Sam_Q) » Reply  Edit


thats pretty well said... you may sound like just another sales person to me but the good thing about it is that you created this piece by hand and that gives you knowledge of what you're really selling to me.
i might consider getting one but i'd like to see more pictures of how this kit look like when its installed.



http://www.carbonfibercollection.com

carbonfibercollection@yahoo.com

 First  1 2 >  Last



» Return to Engine - 4A-GE 20V
Forum Jump
Quick Reply

 


ZeroForum 3.0 beta-8. Execute Networks Inc.

 

NOTICE to ALL who are involved in transactions, sale, purchase for listings in Classified sections of Club4AG.

Club4AG will not and can not enter into dispute or act as mediator for any disputes taking place in our web forums, and sections are merely designed to provide a communication channel for buyers and sellers. And because we are not mediators or a sales channel for transactions, we will not rate, or grade any sellers or buyers as we are not equipped to tally concrete facts for any parties involved, in any transactions.
Any and all actual transactions should be taken with normal precautions of finding and collecting information and securing your sale/purchase to satisfactory levels. All further communications of dispute or resolving any matter of transactions should be conducted outside of the forums.   We suggest you make note of as much information about the sellers and buyers, such as telephone number, email, physical address, etc, before doing any transactions, and use a protected methods like Paypal or other merchant services to secure your sales or purchases. Unlike eBay or Amazon, Club4AG does NOT take middle ground, serve as mediators, or keep, make available, provide, or record any information of anyone on this web for use in dispute resolutions, and Club4AG will NOT rate, grade, or give/receive feedback of anyone conducting sale or purchases here.  This site is provided for announcements of sale and wanted ads only, just as any newspaper classified ads, or bulletin boards in community centers.