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 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now??
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IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? Reply  Edit


Hi all, first post here but I've been reading for a while and active on other forums as well for the 4age.

I've done just about everything I can think of to trouble shoot the dreaded stumbling during acceleration problems and I'm not sure where to look next. I've read all the posts here on 20V and still haven't found a solution.


Here some details:
when cold, the engine stumbles and hesitates quite bad in the 2400-5000 rpm range. Once it warms up it's better, but still hesitates around 3000 rpm.

At light throttle it runs good, and wide open throttle it runs good. Just not in between.

Idle is rock solid around 1060.
Timing is set to 10deg
No Check engine light/codes
TSP is within spec for resistances. I also checked the resistance during a sweeping acceleration and it's a smooth increase, the value doesn't jump like I was hoping to see.
MAP sensor is receiving correct voltage from the ECU
ECU capacitors all look to be in very good shape
New Silicone vac lines.
New O2 sensor with correct 4wire plug from factory (not butt spliced)
Fresh premium fuel
New spark plugs
Spark plug wires are all in good shape.


I think the engine is running rich, i.e. backfires, bad fuel mileage, exhaust smells rich.


What else can I check?



jondee86
Reggae Rules...



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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? (IXVolt) » Reply  Edit


ECU water temperature sensor hooked up and working ?

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


Almost certain it is, I get temp signal to my dash gauge, also my engine warms up ok... I'll double check though.

Out of curiosity, how is that related?

IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? (IXVolt) » Reply  Edit


Yep it's connected.


jondee86
Reggae Rules...



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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? (IXVolt) » Reply  Edit


If the ECU doesn't get a water temp signal, AFAIK it defaults to "cold" and will run
rich. Would probably bring up a fault code as well.

Blacktop ECU also has some learning functions, and it can take a couple of days of
driving around after an ECU reset, to settle to correct operation. I believe the same
applies after changing the O2 sensor.

I don't have a factory spec for setting the timing on a BT. But I assume the 10 deg
(sometimes I read 8 deg ?) is base timing set with a jumper in the diagnostic plug.
And that the actual timing read after the jumper is removed will be more... say
around 16-17 BTDC ?

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


The BGB for the 20V Blacktop says timing should be 8~12 deg. With E1 & T1 pins jumpered of-course.

I did this and my timing is currently rock solid at 10deg. Unjumpered the timing went up to around 13~14 IIRC.


jondee86
Reggae Rules...



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4374 posts [96%]
Wellington, NZ

 Re: 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? (IXVolt) » Reply  Edit


Looks like you have done everything right. Can't think of anything else just now.
The BT is well known for "stumbling" and running rich if the O2 sensor is getting
old. You have a new OEM one in there, so that should not be an issue.

Maybe it will improve if you keep driving... good luck

Cheers... jondee86



jondee86 has been a member for 735,126 days.

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? (jondee86) » Reply  Edit


Thanks for the help. I'll keep driving her and see if it improves.

I still need to double check the resistance of the new O2. Just to completely rule that out.

VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

  » Reply  Edit


hows mechanical timing? belt jump a tooth?

I would really look into physical stuff now. Like...is the fpr getting good vaccum? vacuum lines in order? fpr not stuck? fuel pressure in spec? is there a exhaust leak by the o2?





My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: (VitriumGTS) » Reply  Edit


Mechanical timing - Good I think, doesn't spit or miss at idle. What would 1 tooth mean as far as degree's off. Any clue? I'll double check though. Good idea.

If the FPR was going out, wouldn't it be worse at WOT when more fuel is required?

I haven't checked the fuel pressure. I'll look into that too. Still using original 16v fuel pump. Also have a brand new fuel filter installed.

I did check for an exhaust leak near the O2 sensor. All bolts are snug and torq'd to spec, new gaskets on everything. It's all solid all the way back.


Brand new timing belt tension-er.


New midpipe

New O2 sensor

VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

 Re: (IXVolt) » Reply  Edit


if the fpr was stuck in the pressure position, at wot, it would be doing its job. Off WOT it would be providing too much fuel. Your O2 sensor would pick this up and the ecu will try to drive the injectors lean and this could cause some rough running conditions

worth a shot





My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: (VitriumGTS) » Reply  Edit


Hmm... excellent point. I'll look into that.

What's the easiest way to see what the pressure is after the regulator...?

VitriumGTS




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4730 posts [96%]
San Jose/San Diego CA

  » Reply  Edit


before getting dirty doing fuel pressure stuff, I would check to see if the FPR is working. apply vacuum to it directly while the car is running using a hand pump. See if that makes the car run a little better.

While your doing that monitor the o2 sensor voltage after its heated up and monitor if it goes lean if you pull a vacuum on the fpr

if everything looks normal, then check the fuel pressure...

if it doesn't look normal, time to inspect fuel system more



My RHDJapan.com receipt said: "Your order # is: 100001986". The AE86 gods really are looking out for me.
IXVolt
Member

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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: (VitriumGTS) » Reply  Edit


I'm picking up a hand pump today so I can manually pull a vacuum.

The engine hesitates while under load. It idle's great, and the throttle response while sitting is good. I can rev with no problem. So I'm not sure if I could see a difference in running while the engine isn't under load.

If the FPR is closed all the time the fuel pressure going into the fuel rail would be high I would think. Could I throw in a gauge on the supply side to see if the FPR is plugged?

IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: (IXVolt) » Reply  Edit


I decided to install a fuel pressure gauge. I'd like one anyhow. So I'll be able to see what my fuel pressure is on the fly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this should tell me if my FPR is stuck if I have high pressure during idle and doesn't change much at WOT?

whitespartian




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978 posts [97%]

  » Reply  Edit


what did it end upbringing.



will trade roll cage work for overfenders, flares, carbon/fiberglass hood,
give me a call, or text is best
drift warrior fabrication, clarksville Tn
Carl -(909)435-8206

IXVolt
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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: (whitespartian) » Reply  Edit


Funny you should ask....

I still haven't figured it out.

My car was totaled last week. Some guy did an illegal U-turn infront of me when I had a green light.

SOO, I'm back to square one on the car, trying to see if I can salvage the car..


Tekniq


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44 posts [100%]
Beaverton OR

 Re: (IXVolt) » Reply  Edit


OMG that really sucks!!! I'm glad you are okay though man. Hope your car is salvageable. I've been inactive lately as my car has been down too, but looking to get her back up. Noticed your in Oregon as well, nice to see another BT - AW owner in the PNW. Your swap looked clean, you did a nice job.

Your topic got my attention as I had this problem too when I first finished my swap. I didn't get a chance to completely solve it yet due to some engine issues (thus the car on the sideline right now), but did decipher it down to the fuel system.

I'm confident that once you get the fuel pressure gauge on there, you'll be able to see the problem. I'm actually looking to solve my issue once the car is back up with an adjustable unit one myself. I too installed a fuel gauge in there to be sure. My problem really frustrated me as I had motor done (such as cams and extensive head work), so at times the car would pull real hard, then others it would be gutless. After looking into what was causing it, I noticed some inconsistency in the fuel delivery. This added to my conclusion of the fuel system so hope when you get your car back in, you too will have luck with this. I myself plan to get a harden fuel line too as I don't believe the rubber hoses are cutting it.

Good luck man, keep us updated.

IXVolt
Member

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11 posts [100%]
Medford or

 Re: (Tekniq) » Reply  Edit


Just an update:

I bought my car back from the Ins Co.

Having body work to do, I haven't been doing much on the fuel problems. But as you mentioned Tekniq, I am leaning toward the actual fuel system. Hopefully in the next month or so I'll have time to get back into figure this out.

I was able to find another hood, bumper and headlight assembly at a wrecker. They had a sale going on at the time, $50 bucks for all you can carry. Turns out I can carry quite a bit when money is on the line, hah!


98AE111




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103 posts [100%]

  » Reply  Edit


Did u install the new down pipe at the same time as the O2 sensor?
whitespartian




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978 posts [97%]

  » Reply  Edit


mine did about what you described. and I left fuel alone after all new sensors, and I mean all, and went to the vvt bought new pulley. into it is a huge improve. I think there is still something though. 25-4000 it feels like 3/4 throttle then full after that. before it was like 1/4 throttle till 4k then full.



will trade roll cage work for overfenders, flares, carbon/fiberglass hood,
give me a call, or text is best
drift warrior fabrication, clarksville Tn
Carl -(909)435-8206

mr20v160
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1 posts [100%]
Redwood City California

 Re: 20V BT in a 1986 MR2, 2500-4000 rpm cuts out...What now?? (IXVolt) STA wire » Reply  Edit


(This is my first post)
I had the same problem and did the same thing you have. Ive fix the problem but caused a new one in the process.

I didn't have the STA wired in.

all your sensors are fine, Toyota ECU require all there sensors for it to work. The ECU needs a wake up signal when the engine is turning over. You need to track down the STA wire and make sure its connected. I thought i had mine wired in but its wasn't. It needs to be connected it to the starter side of your ignition switch. Find the wire and back probe with an Ohm meter from the ECU (dissconect the harness from the ECU).

that fixed mine and it ran fine.

Im having a new problem. It revs fine put when i start moving it cuts out again. I know what the whats wrong now, I gutted the car to turn it into a Track Car and just now found the problem. The ECU need the Speed Sensor from the Cluster to drive. I through away all my old parts before i figured it out.

Hope that helps.

 



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